Fantastic beast (lots of SPOILERS) can anyone tell me

[Cranky17]

What was actually going on?

Credence was the crying baby? Who lestrange swapped with a non crying baby, and no one noticed, so credence surely drowns when the boat capsizes and the baby who lived is no relation to dumbledore at all
So not dumbledores brother at all.
Feel like I may have misunderstood though

Ok thanks Newspeak. Didn't want to have missed anything significant!

That's ok flowery I think when I watch it a second time I'm going to see loads of stuff I missed

Credence summoned a phoenix, only a dumbledore can do that.

I think hes a dumbledore but dont think hes ADs brother i cant figure out where he fits

Oh and i really want to find a baby niffler in my stocking this year

Grindelward’s line “your brother is trying to kill you” meant that he had to be implying that Credence is not only a Dumbledore but is of the same generation, and at least one parent, as Albus, correct? So either G is lying or he is saying that (crazy as the dates are) Credence is a brother or half-brother of Albus, not a cousin/nephew etc.

I like the theory upthread that he was talking to the Obscurus though...

Dates wise, it also didn’t work for McGonagall to be present in the flashback

I watched it yesterday and found the plot twists so implausible and difficult to follow that I don't think I'll bother watching the next one. And why was so little focus given to the fantastic beasts? Compared to the first movie it was a massive disappointment.

I also think GG was lying. The dates dont add up and while JKR can possibly explain away MM in that she wanted her in the film, I dont think she can explain away something this big.

Interesting that Nagini didnt go with them, I wonder what makes her turn.

I don't see how GG could possibly know who exactly Credence is. Apart from the phoenix thing hinting at being a Dumbledore (maybe - I think we only have GG word or that?).
He had no idea who Credence was in the first movie - and came to the conclusion he was either a muggle or squib. So not sure how three months later - almost all of which he has spent being tortured in prison - he knows that he's AD brother. I think he's telling him what he wants Credence to believe - he has form for it - they said they had to keep changing the guards of his prison as he kept talking them around; silver tongue and all that.

My own theory (based on nothing but overthinking it!) is that Credence comes from the Gaunt family - possibly an older brother to Merope (no idea how he'd have come to be on the boat), making him an uncle to Tom Riddle. And Tom Riddles wand contained a phoenix feather (from Fawkes) - so there is a phoenix connection there.

I preferred it to the first FF movie - but it definitely felt more like a part of an 'installment' rather than a movie in itself.

I also think that Grindelwald is lying because he wants to cultivate hatred for Dumbledore in Credence because he thinks that’s his best hope of destroying Dumbledore. He can’t attack Dumbledore directly.

I absolutely loved (most of) this film. I loved how dark it was in parts, the story of credence and Nagini, the sets, Jude law as dumbledore and the intensity between young dumbledore and grindelwald.

I was annoyed that they shoehorned in the supposed identity of credence at the end with no context and it really doesn't make sense.
I was also annoyed that Leta died so pointlessly, seemingly so that the brothers could reconcile and newt and Tina could be together freely. She was a great character z

I saw this last night and also thought GG is lying Credence will not be a Dumbledore. I think Credence will be a relative of Tom Riddle considering he was friends with Nagini she must join their side in another film and will be passed down the family to Voldemort later on. Maybe overthinking though.

I was so confused... not enough fantastic Beasts and too many questions. My DD got bored.

I also want a niffler though

Love that theory @venusofwillendorf! Makes sense, I shall be passing it along to my Potter theorising whatsapp group.

With the proper credit of course

Warning- essay!

There was something earlier in the film about Obscurus having a twin, wasn't there? Does anyone else remember that? So if Arianna was also an Obscurus, then perhaps Credence is her twin, and they tried to ship him off for some reason.

I thought Grindelwald knew who Credence was in the first film, as he was trying to recruit him during the whole first film under the disguise of auror Percival Graves? Him almost destroying the whole city would have confirmed he was an Obscurus, he witnessed that, so perhaps was just on the look out to see who the obscurus is, as knew Arianna was one and therefore had a twin... Or am I remembering the first film wrong?

I don't like it now being a blood bond being the reason why Dumbledore won't move against Grindelwald. In the books he said it was because he was ashamed about Arianna's death and that Grindelwald might know which of them killed her, so didn't want to confront him. Now they've taken the emotional element away a bit and added this.

I still wonder how much of this was really backstory JK Rowling already knew/had planned but didn't make it into the original books, and how much is just random stuff she's now adding/changing. Same with Cursed Child.

I agree @filthyforFirth , it's interesting having Nagini as a good character in this series at the moment.

Ooh credence being a twin of arianna is interesting! But is he old enough? Arianna was a bit younger than albus but surely not more than about 10 years. Credence can't be 30 something can he?!

I thought if an obscurus is a parasite then its possible that creadence obscurus is linked to or is the one ariana had? Because knowing what we do now about obscuri and how Arianas magic would explode out of her when she couldn’t control it it sounds like she was one

Definitely not. I think he is 18/19 in this film.

I think the phoenix thing is a red herring. On whose word is it that only Dumbledores can call them? To my mind that is the only thing to make you possibly believe GG.

I read a theory online that Kendra had Creedence out of wedlock and the woman on the boat was Kendras sister; who was taking him to America to avoid shaming Kendra/her secret getting exposed.

Apparently the credits list a character called 'Creedence's Aunt'.......... this surely has to be the woman on the boat?

That's true, forgot to look up when they were both born. Ariana= 1885, and Credence 1901. Arghhh so confusing!

I don't understand how grindlewald could possibly know who credence was and where he came from considering only lestrange knew she had swapped the babies on the boat. No one else knew the babies had been swapped!
I like the theory that grindlewald was talking to the obscurus and not credence though.

My first thought was that Adrianna was his twin but I don't think they would be the same age would they?

That's true, forgot to look up when they were both born. Ariana= 1885, and Credence 1901. Arghhh so confusing!

So just to be clear, Ariana was 14 when she died which means she died before Credence was born - say 1900 at the latest. Meaning that Kendra couldn't have been Credence's mother as she died before Ariana.

Oh yes - Kendra Dumbledore (c. 1851[1] – Summer 1899[2])

Credence definitely can't be a sibling of albus. So he must be a cousin or something. So who is the brother who is trying to kill him? Dumbledore isn't trying to kill credence anyway

Yes maybe they've made it sound like Albus is the brother who is trying to kill him, but is a cousin, good shout

Queenie went really weird towards the end...going towards grindelwald. Then in the house in the mountain part she was acting almost as if being a lover towards him? Maybe Queenie is Credence’s mother with Grindelwald?