Flu jab for nhs workers..

[fluuuuu]

So. I have name changed as I have previously mentioned where I work.

I have been told that I have to have the flu jab this year as a nurse in a hospital in the uk. It shows up on my compliance and training now as a red blob

If we don't get the flu jab we will be disciplined formally and lose 2 days of annual Leave, the deadline for doing so is today. However stocks are low and they ran out of the jab 4 weeks ago with not a lot of uptake but they might get more in by Monday. 50% of my department have refused to have it. As it's 'intrusive' and unison agreed so now they've been ticked as having had it even though they haven't.

My issue is. I would have the jab but they don't have the stocks in. and they've stopped doing clinics because there is no vaccine to give. I want the jab However I'm still being hounded to have a non existent vaccine and threatened with disciplinary action and loss of 2 days holiday for not having it whereas half of my colleagues complained about having to have it and they don't have to have it and won't be perused to have it and most importantly will not lose 2 days annual leave

Aibu? This is really unfair!

That's so NHS!! It needs to get high enough up in the system to hit someone who knows about OH and the clinics AND who can influence mandatory training.

I would suggest emailing the head of HR + head of OH + head of whatever your training thing is called. All on the same email.

Or alternatively pay to get it done at a pharmacy (or at least tell them that's what you've done).

It's. a joke isn't it?! I think I'm going to have to pay for it and just suck it up

yanbu
agree with arsecovering documenting everything and sending to line manager & hr.

I was told that if I didn’t comply with getting the flu jab that if I was off sick with a cold/flu like illness I wouldn’t be granted sick pay and it would be unpaid leave. Not sure how they can police this but I’ve worked for nhs for 10 years and this is the first year I’ve felt that I really had to have it.

@Weebeastiebaby that's appalling!

Taking drastic measures to encourage staff to get the flu vaccine is fair enough, people who work with vulnerable members of society have a duty of care to remain up to date on their vaccines wherever possible (unless they have a genuine reason they can't be vaccinated for example.)

However, trying to punish people for not getting a vaccine that doesn't exist is ridiculous. Have you talked to your manager about It? I can't imagine you're the only one in this position, they'll have to give leeway for people who will have it but haven't been able to have it yet because of the shortages.

No I'm not the only one. It's not fun getting emails though saying you will lose your annual leave and be disciplined and then a paragraph later say oh yes sorry I don't have the vaccine to give..

Weebeastiebaby. . That is shocking as last years jab was woefully ineffective and the government published stats show that more than half of people presenting with cold or flu like illnesses are not suffering from flu let alone one that was covered by last year's jab.

What if you are allergic to the vaccine ingredients or have had a bad reaction before? Are you except to put your life at risk to meet some NHS statistics?

I can't see why people are refusing to have it but I really can't see how they can threaten you when there is no stock. I'm a GP and we had a handful left yesterday. Local chemists have none. You can't magic it out of fresh air.
Oh and I don't approve of the threatening manner

This vaccine doesn’t work. According to the government’s own figures it has an average efficacy of 15%.
Nobody should be forced to have a vaccine that doesn’t work.

An employer cannot vary the terms of your employment contract (I.e reduce your stated annual leave entitlement) for failure to have a medical procedure (an injection is a medical procedure) that is not a stated condition of your employment.

If they have not given you a new contract which states the annual flu vaccine is now a requirement of employment they cannot insist you have it.

In any event, they cannot ‘punish’ staff by punitively removing annual leave. The justification for the mandatory vaccine of employees (e.g. protecting patients) would require that you had the vaccine before contact. Altering your duties would be the first step, fo example, if you failed to comply with a new requirement in a new contract. It’s not legal and wouldn’t even reach an employment tribunal.

They are trying it on to a) hit targets re: the flu vaccine, b) to demonstrate they are doing everything possible to reduce staff absence through sickness and the spread of flu.

Just tell them you will you be taking your full annual leave entitlement, as stipulated in your contract of employment.

P.S if you’re not a member of the union consider joining one or you can call ACAS for back up. The ACAS helpline is really good (most of the time!) and they probably alaready have a file open on this if other employees have called already.

I work for the NHS but in the community. Our trust has an agreement with a some local pharmacies that if we show our NHS ID we can get it for free. Haven't quite got round to it yet but it's there if I want it. They are monitoring numbers of who has it but were not being pressured like you. I don't agree with that.

You might want to point out to them some of the finer points of the law on consent to medical procedures. Consent to medical treatment isn't valid if you are subject to undue influence / pressure from a third party. You would think, being the NHS, they would be aware of this.

I’m pretty sure they can’t take annual leave days and discipline you for refusing to put a substance in your body?

As an aside I’m not really sure why medical professionals wouldn’t be keener tbh. I’m office staff and have mine every year. I understand herd immunity and have frequent contact with clinicians who care for incredibly vulnerable people. It’s part and parcel of caring for your patients surely?

I know some people have valid well reasoned arguments for not having the flu vaccine, but my personal observation of nhs staff refusal is a weird power play and dislike of authority. There’s many cases where that’s justified but I don’t think this is one personally. There’s too much focus on ‘they just don’t want us to call in sick’ instead of ‘we should be working on prevention of spreading it and protecting ourselves’.

I found out the uptake for the maternity ward I had dd (winter baby) on was 15%. I have to say if I’d known that before I would have seriously considered another hospital. It’s astounding to me that people working with women with lowered immune systems and newborns wouldn’t have a flu vaccine.

Oh and I know most pregnant women get their flu vaccine but some don’t/can’t.

Personally, I would take at least two days off sick due to the stress caused by ‘threatening communications’ and the punitive breach of my employment contract. Not that you would need to tell them that, as you can self certify for 7 days (Monday - Sunday)

As said above are you sure they don't offer vouchers to have it done in local pharmacies?

Can I ask how did you find out the percentage of take up on the ward cornettoninja?

WTF?

I was ready to say of course you should have it with being a nurse etc but what the hell are you supposed to do if they haven't got the vaccine for you to have?

It's not your fault at all but has your own doctors got any left? Or pharmacy? I suppose there are a lot of you in this situation though.

The flu vaccine isn’t very effective due the number of strains and the need to predict which strains will be virulent months ahead of time. It’s different to other vaccines that can be mandatory for medical staff and where they are a condition of employment (e.g. up to date mmr, tetanus).

Some companies buy in the vaccine en mass, particularly in the States, as they erroneously believe it will protect against the flu/colds etc and reduce staff sickness. Statistically speaking, the weather has a bigger impact on how many flu cases there are each year (cold weather = people huddled inside more to spread the flu + some evidence of lowered immunity. Interestingly, the peak time for flu is March - not December/January as we might think, so if you feel the vaccine is for you it’s not too late to have it in January/early February.

sewrainbow I had my baby in the trust I work for and they send out the breakdown for each department internally.

It’s probably something you can dig out on google or failing that, if you were so inclined, you could make a freedom of information request.

If you desperately want to have it why don’t you just pay for it in the local pharmacy. I’m eligible for mine but the one and only time I went to a drop in clinic it was a long wait . I get it done in asda for £7.
Yes on principle why should I pay but I’d much rather save the time

I wish OP would just ignore all the threats until the vaccine is available or something real happens (OP is actually harmed as the emails threaten). Being NHS, I doubt they are organised enough to impose any actual sanctions. Heaven knows they can't spare the staff, either.