AIBU to ask if that bit of plastic is really necessary **title edited by MNHQ**

[Ifwisheswereunicorns]

If you think of every plastic toy you had as a child, every plastic wrapper or box it ever came in, every bit of plastic curling ribbon that made a pretty bow around that gift you gave, every happy meal toy you got as a kid, every happy meal toy you got for your kid, every drinking straw, every shampoo or conditioner bottle, every washing up liquid bottle, every milk bottle, every party bag filler toy (that falls apart in the car on the way home!), every bit of plastic your food of drink comes in; IT STILL EXISTS! In one way or another (unless it's been insinorated, causing atmospheric polution, cluttering up our planet; polluting our oceans, shores and land.
Our planet is in crisis.
AIBU to ask if you could think again about what to buy at Christmas? X

I absolutely love Christmas, and my whole house is decorated (many of my decorations are up to 40 years old, and I only buy items which can be used for years to come, not used for one year and discarded) so I'm on a few facebook Christmas groups, and the sheer amount of "I've got my child , what else can I get?" is doing my head in. They don't need that much stuff, and surely it just gets lost amongst all the rest of the clutter and not really appreciated?

I'm not opposed to buying things which you know will get a lot of use. DS loves Lego and so he's getting one big set this year, but he spends most of time playing with them, and I know they will still last him many years, and eventually will end up being used for my classroom, and then possibly even grandchildren, so I don't have a problem with that. It's just seeing the amount of 'junk' that children will play with for a few weeks then discard that annoys me.

I bought brown paper for wrapping and string today. It’s a first for me. I’m trying hard to avoid boxes and plastic but as I struggle with finding presents anyway turning them down on that basis just isn’t happening I’m afraid.

I really hope manufacturers take on board the message because until they do we stand no chance.

All around me is plastic and unnecessary wrapping. I feel like a drop in the ocean with my efforts.

Maybe I’m being thick, but whenever I hear people lauding the merits of wooden toys etc, I can’t help but wonder how many trees were cut down to make them. Which doesn’t seem particularly environmentally friendly to me?

claraschu, I understand the issues with cotton production but at the moment, in my eyes, cotton is a better alternative to synthetics. We have to start somewhere and try to put the breaks on the plastic pollution in our oceans that, in part, is coming from washing synthetics. The world is a mess but we, as individuals, need to make the changes just as much as governments do.

OP I am trying to move away from buying tat for the sake of it. Previous years I've been guilty of buying stuff for stockings etc that just gets tossed to one side. This year I've made a conscious effort to buy things people actually need/want and not just plastic crap.

I'm far from perfect in terms of waste but I do think every little bit we can do helps

I do think the problem is manufactures. They could be the real driving force behind changing things.

Also milk floats are electric so don't think they use fuel.

rinoachicken that's why it's important to look for wooden toys etc that are made from wood from sustainable forests. Not all wooden toys are created equally! Some use eco friendly glues and paints. The point is, they're biodegradable.

jarhead, ditto. We can't change what we've done in the past but we can change what we do now and in the future.

If you have children, OP, I’m not sure why you’re ranting at people - having children is just about the most environmentally damaging thing you can do. Followed by consuming meat and dairy. Plastics are obviously a massive issue but if the bees go, we’re all fucked!

bluelonerose, it really is a problem that manufacturers need to address; if enough people stop buying their plastic crap then surely they'd have to. It starts with us not buying what they're offering though.
I think you're right about milk floats. Energy, don't get me started on that one!

rivertam I'm sorry that you think I'm ranting. I didn't mean it to be ranty! I know what you're saying about having kids and the biggest problem is over population. I can hardly send my kids back to where they came from though! I was hoping to have a discussion about how we can start to make the changes we need to for the sake of our planet.

Tell our children not to have kids? Stop eating meat and dairy? Don’t go on holiday abroad?

I think most people do as much as they’re prepared to about any crisis. Lots of people will buy wooden toys but still think they have the right to reproduce as they choose and eat what they like and travel where they like.

They are wrong. You are not wrong with what you are saying but never ever underestimate how much people will do what they do to best suit themselves, and it’s very very very few of us who will do everything that needs to be done.

I agree with you rivertam. I don't do everything I need to do but am certainly prepared to start making immediate changes. We eat meat, but very little and our diets have become so much more plant based over the last few years. We eat dairy and my kids drink milk, as is advised (I know children can survive without it but in our circumstance, which I won't go into, I cannot deny milk). We, as a family have many, many changes to make, I'm fully aware of that. I also know we need to educate our children to live differently to how we have for the most part of our lives.

Good to see that so many of us DO care. I've been intending to visit The Clean Kilo - a place in my city where you take your own containers to buy loose dry goods and liquids by weight/volume. Next week would be a good time to start!
Street markets and many supermarkets sell loose fruit and vegetables. Farmers' markets appreciate customers bringing back egg boxes for refilling

User7643 blames 'the masses'. Aren't we all part of 'the mass'?

I think small choices are more sustainable than becoming vegan, making your soap and shampoo and selling your car the same week.

But, even so, it can be hard to balance and it can be hard to justify the extra effort when you're already knackered.

And with the quality of life slowly decreasing it can be even harder to find the motivation to mess around making better choices.

You are not wrong with what you are saying but never ever underestimate how much people will do what they do to best suit themselves, and it’s very very very few of us who will do everything that needs to be done.

I don't think that expecting people to completely change everything is the way to get things done. Asking people to make small changes is the way to do it and then gradually build up from there.

You just need to look at things like the recent banning of the plastic bag at big supermarkets here - people acted like it was the end of the world, staff were being abused at checkouts. A couple of months on, and everyone is over it and just toddles along with their reusable bags. I'd like to see the next step to be reusable bags for fruit and veg - put a big display of reusable bags up, set a date, and get on with it. People might whinge for a while, but they'll get over it. Then look at the next step.... then the next.

A few people making big changes is not going to help. A lot of people making small changes is what is needed.

I'm trying. It's not easy. I have a 4 and 6 year old who want everything they see on TV. They are now used to me saying no, and why? Their sad little faces when they reply " because it's made of plastic mummy"
We talk about some plastic being better than others because it get used lots and lots, they then say "but we will play with the LOL over and over" I just can't bring myself to spend £10 on plastic crap that will end up in landfill even if the kids do get some enjoyment out if it
With a few of my friends we don't buy our kids anymore,we go on a day out. Last year we paid for each other to go to a kids theater production, another family we went on a santa train, and another we go for a night's camping together in the summer.
Buying presents for kids parties I'm trying to buy books or craft stuff from sustainable sources that can be recycled rather than a plastic toy.
It makes me sad when I see all the plastic tat my daughter's get from others for birthdays, although it's as much as the waste of resources as it is me thinking " where am I going to put it all"
Shopping wise I take my bags with me, occasionally I end up buying something when I haven't got one with me. I'm not adverse to paying for a bag but I just don't need another bag for life. I'd rather pay 20p for a single use biodegradable bag that goes in the kitchen caddy than a thick plastic bag for life which (I assume) takes more material to produce than a thin biodegradable one. I had a sort out and put over 50 of those bags for recycling (not done it for a few years) and feel it's such a waste as they essentially got used as a single use bag. It then costs money and resources to recycle them back into something else.

ShakespearesSisters, there are people who are paid an awful lot of money to ensure your kids want everything they see on tv. All we can do is work against it and educate our kids, as you clearly are. I don't know your age but I'm assuming your around my age. I was born in the 80s and my parents weren't armed with the facts about how their every day choices would affect the planet in the long run. We were one of the first generations to be bombarded with toy companies ramming their plastic toy adverts down our throats every time we turned on kids tv. I don't think parents were ready to say no to their kids then. We are all more aware of the issues now and we, as parents, need to stop allowing the advertising companies to brainwash our kids and guilt trip us in to spending our money on unnecessary 'stuff'.

The days out for your friend's kids is a great idea... I think I'll use that one for my nieces and nephews!

MidniteScribbler that is what needs to happen, and as you said, the carrier bag plan has been a big success. Supermarkets need to act quickly on it though. If we can all start it off by making changes off our own back, then all the better.

I'm trying not to buy tat. I took my niece for an early Christmas present yesterday. We went for lunch then to the theatre. She knows on Christmas Day she will only have a small present to open which will be a book written by a local child.

I'm going for practical gifts, eco friendly and experiences this year.

After watching Simon Reeve's Mediterranean about the greenhouses in Almeria I'm not buying greenhouse produce from Spain and I'm also giving up cling film.

We get given money for ds from most relatives because no one knows what to buy for him as he is 12 but is severely disabled.
We mostly buy plastic toys ( that last years) because they are safer and most wooden toys have no meaning for him- he doesn't do imaginative play. We don't buy plastic tat because that is also unsafe for him.
Plastic features quite a lot in our lives because it gives him a better quality of life. We don't though have multiple children or have holidays abroad so we cause less damage to the environment than many other people in those respects.

I completely agree. I only realised about the wrapping paper issue this year. I have now bought a big roll of brown paper and some stampers and ink to make our own. I've also found a UK company that makes sticky tape which is free from plastic and has latex adhesive rather than glue.

There is no tat in the kids' stockings this year and we have cut down as much as possible on single use plastics. I found some stunning handmade toys on Etsy (Little Peeps Creations is the shop I use most).

I do despair. Went to a charity event last night and there were plastic glow sticks being given out to all the kids. Then popped to M and S and struggled to find and biscuits that didn't contain palm oil.

Totally with you OP. We have made massive changes in the last two years. At first they were hard and daunting but gradually we are getting used to it and it is actually easy and satisfying. My mind is a lot healthier in fact. Here is a list >

Have not renewed passports and have committed to never fly again for life.
Paper bags or boxes to supermarket and/or loose.
Old TV still going well and will not be renewed.
Walk 1.5 miles to shop and back (Co-op).
Purchasing second hand clothes from local charity shops where possible.
Converted large parts of the garden to growing fruit and veg.
Working from home as much as possible.
When working away from home taking trains where we can.
Stopped buying cosmetics (largest plastic tat of anything IMO) and shower gels.

We realise these self-imposed restrictions will change our life but if we don't eventually nature will.

OP I am trying to move away from buying tat for the sake of it. Previous years I've been guilty of buying stuff for stockings etc that just gets tossed to one side. This year I've made a conscious effort to buy things people actually need/want and not just plastic crap.