What would you expect school to do when child breaks a bone at school?

[ThatlittlebellwentBOING]

Just wondered what you would expect from the school.
My child broke her arm at school yesterday and when I got called I was told it looked broken. I got their as soon as I can which still took me 20 minutes. They were holding her arm for her with an obvious bend in it.
I wondered if it should have been stabilised by a first aider into a sling as leaving school holding it and getting into car was so difficult. They said they would have but had no slings at school? They had given an ice pack.
It seemed such a long time til I could get there and no one could get there sooner. My parents wondered why they didn’t call a paramedic.
I’ve never dealt with these issues before and wondered what would considered a normal procedure to follow.
Thanks

( child has arm in a cast now it was badly broken by a simple fall)

What 57784226688dggvg said above ^^. (and DH is a paramedic, I'm an ambulance volunteer and first aider).

Ambulances are for people who need on the spot medical attention and/or who are too fragile to get to hospital otherwise. A straightforward arm fracture doesn't qualify, sorry. Tying up two highly qualified staff and a vehicle for 90 minutes to give someone some calpol and a lift to hospital is not OK.

I do think the ambulance service need to be a bit more honest with people who are low priority about how long they will be waiting and taking an alternative route in instead of just saying 'we're busy, it may be some time'. Round here if you had called an ambulance for this broken arm there is a very good chance you'd have waited 2.5 hours: with mum in the car you'd have been at the hospital, triaged, had decent pain relief, an xray, a treatment plan and a bar of chocolate by then.

Some people on this thread definitely need to watch the series 'Ambulance', to see what the service deals with and how they have to prioritise their time, sometimes actual emergencies have to wait a while as there is no ambulance available - the school day would most likely have been over before anyone was sent out!!

Some people on this thread definitely need to watch the series 'Ambulance',

which is a heavily edited tv programme.

btw, I don't think this would be an ambulance job.

😂 at all the ambulance callers... no wonder the NHS is in such a state. And the involvement of child protection for a simple broken arm with no suspicious circumstances? It’s like the state has finite resources. I despair.

You don't need policy, it's common sense! Some breaks are extremely painful others are not. The way the school my kids have gone to was my asking them as much pain they are in, the same way they do in A&E. A kid in tears, struggling to concentrate, making grunting noise and saying 11 out of 10 would warrant an ambulance. A kid saying that it hurts but able to have a normal conversation and saying pain is 5vto7 can wait for a parent to come.

The first time my DS broke his arm at 4yo, I didn't take him to hospital until the next day. He cried when it happened but then was actually moving the arm. I took him just in case but was gobsmacked when they said it was broken.

@57784226688dggvg would you consider a 45 degree bend the wrong way and a child in enough pain to need gas and air (and morphine/emergency surgery at hospital) an ambulance matter? How come the child I encountered got ambulance within 10 mins,, in a busy urban area? 'Broken arm' covers such a multitude of eventualities that blanket advice seems rather risky to me.

It's painful breaking bones but not so much you can't get into a car and go to hospital yourself. It's quicker and eases the pressure on ambulances.

One last try, please do not make decisions based easing the pressure on ambulance. This is not your responsibility.

If in doubt call 111, they are brilliant and will get you the right help.

999 is not a taxi service and they won't come out at all or prioritise you if they judge that you don't need an ambulance or are the last on a list of priorities.

My mil fell down the stairs at M&S and hit her head on the steps. The store called an ambulance and we had to wait half an hour for them to come and assess her. Mil was calm but shocked and bruised. The paramedics offered to take her to A&E where we would have had to wait 4-5 hours to be she was treated.

We are certainly not hysterical hypochondriacs with 999 on speed dial but I hate it when people guilt trip others to not be a burden on the NHS. Where would it end? Playing sports such as Rugby, skiing and horse riding, even running will increase the risk of injury, should we all stop doing these things to not be a burden on the NHS?

It is not up to mumsnetters but up to the NHS to decide what to do with you.

111 is your friend here. You can call them or be triaged online

111.nhs.uk

End of rant.

I despair at the level of 'medical advice' given by people on here with no clue or training.

Yes, for the majority of fractures, if you can make your own way safely to A & E then do so. If not an ambulance may be needed, don't feel guilty if you have to call one.

As a HCP with 20 years in Trauma and Orthopeadics I would have been concerned about compromised blood flow to the hand, a 'banana' bend in a childs forearm can indicate a displaced fracture and there are a lot of blood vessels that can be compromised.

Unless you have X ray vision, are trained in assessing compromised circulation, or are basing your view on what constitutes an ambulance on a TV program, you really shouldn't guilt people into not seeking medical help if needed.

Aldo paramedics can give Entonox as well as Paracetamol to children, they can also assess if a Dr is needed on scene to sedate the patient and manipulate fractures before the patient suffers permanent damage from reduced blood flow.

My son broke his wrist at school. He was checked over by a paramedic (fellow school mum) who said it was just bruised. Trusted her opinion. Ds still complaining next day. So took to A&E. It was broken. Didn't even get a bump note from school

FartmareonGlitterstreet Thank you, a voice of reason.

Should say if you are basing your view

I guess you were very lucky @frogsoup to get one within 10 mins. I can speak from experience having spent 2 hours on a cold floor with someone having seizures waiting, also an hour in the rain with someone led on the floor (broken hip) and the last time I called an ambulance on work for an elderly lady with a leg injury was told it was a 7 hour wait so had to contact her family to get her.

Just out of interest, was the advice different in the 70's and 80's, when not so many people had cars, and couldn't so easily take children to hospital themselves? I remember so many children's stories of children falling off their bikes, and ambulances were called for broken arms and legs

But resources weren't as stretched back then - you only need to look at the stats to see how many more calls the service gets now, partly because other services (mental health, social care etc) have been cut and people call an ambulance instead

I'm not sure people are saying don't get medical advice- I think they are saying that sometimes a parent driving a child to hospital is the quickest way to get medical advice! It's just there are lots of variables like how the child is, how far away the parents are, where the hospital is so it's hard to say yes or no to the OP.

When dd fell badly the school offered to take her to a&e if I couldn't get there - generally they drive them because it's not right to call an ambulance if not an emergency, and it's quicker for low priority calls

@Threadastaire - I was partly talking about the dislocated to combat all the hysteria and outrage about how we should never call an ambulance in case someone else is dying..

Fwiw - paramedics were with my DS within half an hour (London) this time, and 1.5 hours the previous time it happened. They said their biggest problem by far is hoax callers, as they have repeat offenders, mainly people with MH issues. They know it's the hoax caller, but they legally have to attend anyway.

My DD has broken her arm 4 times. At no point did I feel I should call an ambulance. She wasn't dying. She wasn't even in that much pain! She held her own arm, sat in the car and we drove to hospital.
I'm appalled at those of you who think calling an ambulance for this minor injury is necessary. What a total abuse of the NHS.
The school did absolutely the correct thing in the circumstances.

Thank you @FartmareonGlitterstreet too.

Just out of interest, was the advice different in the 70's and 80's, when not so many people had cars, and couldn't so easily take children to hospital themselves?

Lots of people had cars in the 70s and 80s - it wasn't the dark ages!!

But, we also had more hospitals, i.e. in every small town there'd be a "casualty" dept, maybe not open 24/7, and maybe not fully equipped to modern A&E standards, but absolutely capable of xrays, basic broken bone potting, dealing with minor injuries from relatively minor accidents etc. It was only the most serious cases, i.e. bad car accidents, heart attacks, etc that would go to the "big" infirmary in the next town with a "proper" emergency dept that was open 24/7. Ambulance drivers made the decision which hospital to go to based on their knowledge of which services were available at each.

You'd also have GP surgeries were you could just go on with minor injuries and, shock horror! they'd actually treat you there and then without waiting 4 weeks for an appointment.

The reason ambulances and A&E depts are now so busy is that GP surgeries turned themselves into an office hours based "desktop" job and won't deal with minor accidents/emergencies , and that loads of smaller hospital casualty depts were closed down. Quite simply, anyone with "minor" accidents/emergencies has nowhere to go anymore except for the big centralised A&E departments.

I remember breaking my arm at school around 1980 - teacher sent me to school office with a friend. School office secretary put me in her car and took me to the local hospital a mile away, checked me in and left me there. By the time my Mum had arrived from work, I'd had an x-ray and was in the "potting" room. That was in a small town hospital that had a 9-5 m-f "casualty" department. It was the same "casualty" dept I went for an ingrown toe nail removal - sent directly by my GP!

We do seem to be going backwards in the name of progress sometimes with the NHS.

My DD has broken her arm 4 times. At no point did I feel I should call an ambulance. She wasn't dying. She wasn't even in that much pain! She held her own arm, sat in the car and we drove to hospital.

Did your dd have to have surgery for her fractures? How long was the surgery?

We were at a leisure centre when our friends small daughter fell badly and had a horrendous break to her arm, bone through skin, serious displacement, lots of blood. The leisure centre first aider was worse than useless and I ended up formally complaining. I phoned 999 but due to the time of day they said it would be much much quicker to get her to hospital myself (the mum was in shock) than to wait for an ambulance even though it really was an emergency . They talked me through getting her into the car safely and with the least further pain and gave me directions and I pretty much cleaned the centre out of spare towels to prop her up in the car & stop the bleeding but it was the best solution.
999 was awesome in giving advice and talking me through because basically I had to as an ambulance wasn't going to be able to come fast enough. She ended up with surgery but was ok.
The service is even more stretched now than it was back then.
A simple break, I would be quite happy for the school to wait for me to come (in a reasonable time) to take DS myself and would expect it.

We are in a city with black cans and school is about 2mi from the children’s hospital with a&e. If I wasn’t at home or answering my phone immediately I’d expect school to fashion a sling and someone to take ds in a taxi and meet me there. Kids can go into shock and if rather he did that at a&e. Also much safer to have an adult in the back of a taxi with him than have the only adult in the car trying to keep their attention on the road.

I’d want a member of staff to take my child to hospital to save time, whilst someone rang me and said where she was going. If it was obviously deformed then it is an emergency. Inside the bone could have ruptured a vein, artery or nerve. Calpol isn’t going to do much and when the adrenaline wears off the child will need something stronger.

For me it depends on how the injury occurred and whether there’s likely to be other complications

I think the school were pretty good in the circumstances in the OP

My daughter has broken her arm twice - both times after falling off horses.

The first time she was at a pony day at our yard, neither DH or I were with her. It was a pretty spectacular flying over the handle bars job so they called an ambulance which got to her in about 15 minutes. We met DD at the hospital. She had a minor wrist fracture in the end

2nd time was a very graceful slither off the side of her horse, she got up and got back on so I didn’t think any more about it. Next day she was in a lot of pain and it was very swollen so we drove her to A&E. Had about a 3 hour wait all in