Bailiffs....I need advice asap please

[Dumbfounded212121]

Hello all I have and changed for this.

So I'm not far off murdering my dp. Many will say LTB but that's not going to fix my problem for tomorrow. I will deal with him later.

Dp has a debt to do with business however it is in his own personal name. Business rates. The company hasn't been doing very well recently and he has struggled with this and paid as and when he can. The bailiffs have been sent round to his place of work and left a letter saying they will be back to remove goods. Do called the number and said look I can't pay all. Can I pay a bit and set up a payment plan with you. Bailiff said I will give you until Friday (3 days ) to get what you can and if you are lucky we can agree something to let you pay it off by new year. Well we still won't be able to pay it off by then. As the council want the years business rates up front even though we are only a few months in arrears.

So they can't take anything from his work as he has proof the business owns everything not me. This so try as in finance in companies name and business rates in dps name. So the belief said I will come and you can show me your proof but then I will be coming to your house. He has our address. So I have some receipts for the tv and laptop to prove they are mine. But no receipts for anything else.

What can he take.... Can he take the tumble dryer, dishwasher?we have a spare fridge in the garage, sofas? My jewellery? Nothing worth much.

Thanks in advance. I know not aibu. But i am desperate and don't know what to do tomorrow. I'm more worried about the effect on my kids rather than stuff. Please don't bash me or dh. Times have been hard and the council didn't listen when we tried to sort it out before.

The naivity of how councils and bailiffs actually operate on this thread is actually scary. I have already PMd the OP and this post is just my story and for a different debt, but I'm putting it here because those who have never been in this situation literally have no idea what happens in real life regarding these situations. I don't expect anyone will change their tune, but the naïve attitude of they will accept payments and they will help you needs challenging, because it couldn't be further from the truth.
Councils will and do shunt the debt off asap to a bailiff company, and will tell you there's nothing they can do - but if bailiffs are unsuccessful then they return the debt to the council. So blatantly there is something they can do.
I've been in council tax debt, I tried calling the council when I missed the first payment and asked for a payment plan to sort it out, temporary blip that could have been paid off inside 6 months. They told me the whole amount for the rest of the year in front was now due and failure to pay it in 7 days would result in bailiffs. End of story. Refused to accept a payment less than the full amount.
I believed them, because I trusted that they'd do things the right way. You can't pay someone else what you don't have, no matter how much they demand it. It's not physically possible. I ended up with bailiffs who again told me it was the full amount or nothing, and did I have anyone I could borrow it from? Could I get a loan? Well no to both cases. They then told me they'd force entry and take my worthless stuff anyway, arrest me and my child would be taken into care because I'd be arrested. They told me the liability order gave them this power.
I begged the council to help they refused. I believed both of them because I thought they were professional and trustworthy. How wrong I was. Then I educated myself on it all.
The liability order is just that, it means that you legally owe the debt and that the company you owe can persue the debt legally. It doesn't give bailiffs powers to arrest anyone, nor break in. It gives the company the power to employ the bailiffs, but forcing entry is totally different and needs to be back to court for that.

I learned that the council are on dodgy - but not illegal - ground refusing to accept any payments, but they do this so that you sit and wait for the next step, and this just shows to any court that you aren't trying. And no, saying they refused payment won't wash, unless you have it in writing. What they don't want you to know is that they can't stop you paying what you can afford, by automated phone line or online, because you're then showing proof you're paying what you can. You follow their rules because you think it's the right thing to do.
When involved the bailiffs will at best exaggerate their powers, at worst lie and intimidate. But again you believe them because you think they're professional and trustworthy.
Once I ignored the bailiffs and started paying it off directly to the council in regular amounts, everything went quiet, I of course had fees on top, which is how bailiffs make their money, but I heard no more from the bailiffs - even if they applied for an order to break in, or have me arrested, I'd get the opportunity to show the court I'm paying what I can afford and it will be paid off by X date, so taking my (worthless) belongings or putting me in prison would only slow down the whole process, and unlikely to be granted by a court, because the object is getting the debt paid, bailiffs will tell you different though.

It was paid off inside 12 months, instead of the 6 it could have been. I wish I'd known what I know now because I'd have just started paying them as soon as I could, to build up a history of payment, as it was I followed their instructions and ended up compounding the history of non payment.
It's totally ridiculous really, and so many people are disbelieving because you can't imagine that councils are allowed to act like this - but they are.

If a liability order has been granted then the OP's partner must have received a magistrates court summons. That is an important part of the process. The order is Reminder Letter > Final Demand > Court Summons > Liability Order. Seems to me like he just ignored the final demand and the court summons. He could have attended court and argued that the rates were in revaluation and he was awaiting the outcome.
The OP may not have seen the letters/summons as they would have been issued to the business property address. I think the OP needs to realise that her DP may not have been entirely honest with her over this matter.

It’s a tax and different from other bills. Of course if you pay instalments directly to the council they will accept them. If the bailiffs aren’t successful in obtaining the money from you then there won’t be any charges....

Also to say that if he had attended court he would have had the opportunity to present an affordable payment plan to the court and attending council representatives which is usually accepted in the vast majority of cases.

Imnotwalloing council tax hears - it’s a formality and people don’t attend, it’s for a liability order to enable the council to then - at a later stage obtain an attachment to earnings or benefit

IvyKaty its not council tax it's business rates (NNDR), similar but different. In business rates cases you are allowed to either attend or submit your proposal in writing to the court. Either way, a formal summons is issued so the OP's DP knew it was going to court. I deal with these things on a daily basis.

@ivykaty44

No, they wouldn't with me. I missed a monthly payment, called and asked to pay extra on the following months to be told that the full amount (a year in advance) was now owed and it was either pay that within 7 days, or it went to the bailiffs. I didn't have the full amount. They wouldn't take a payment for less than the full amount. Of course I didn't realise that if I went online and paid they couldn't stop me - I followed their instructions because I was in the 'wrong' and just did as I was told figuring it was for the best in the long run. It wasn't, and I should have just started paying regardless. The bailiffs told me the same thing.
It would seem that councils are under the impression that non payers are all sitting on a couple of grand that they could hand over if they really wanted to, hence applying panic inducing bailiffs and their tactics. All good if you have it and can hand it over.
But what if you genuinely don't? As I didn't? No amount of threats and intimidation is going to magic it out of thin air.

And in addition to that, the bailiffs charges were still added to my outstanding bill. It was returned to the council because I refused to deal with the bailiffs after the ridiculous threats they made - I went to hand myself in at the local police station! Luckily the sergeant on duty took pity on me and pointed me in the right direction for real help.
After paying the council online, regardless of what they said, the bailiffs returned the debt to the council, but the charges from their visits still stood and I paid them in addition to the arrears.

Imnotwallowing - sorry yes getting mixed up with night gremlin posts about council tax

Dumbfounded Good luck today. I hope you get something sorted out.
Can I just say how strong, sensible and calm you sound in what must be a fairly terrifying situation. If anyone is going to get this resolved then it's someone like you who admits their mistakes, tries to sort them and keeps on responding calmly and politely despite really nasty vindictive bullying from Iam .
Stay strong and you'll be ok.

Well if Iaim's business is kicking someone when they are down they must be absolutely raking it in. Shocking behaviour and in no way helpful.

OP you have had some good advice and I believe that you want to get this sorted, a lot of us (myself included) have got ourselves into a situation that has rapidly got out of hand. There is no shame in that.

Thanks all. They haven't been back yet. Still waiting

Fingers crossed for you. I know how stressful bailiffs are. Bit of a lighter story. I’m under a payment plan at the moment, the bailiff turned up when dp was here so I didn’t want to let him in. Sat outside in his car talking to him, offered him a monthly payment and he turned it down, said it was too high and I would be putting myself in further hardship, so said he would take half of what I offered as payment each month. He would have been right too. Huge relief. Some of them are human when you speak to them. Good luck.

I have skim read this thread.

OP, I feel for you. I have been there with non-domestic rates on a small business.

The local authority recovery department for business rates can hold off the enforcement company while this mess is sorted out.

Ignoring the ridiculous pile on from that poster Iam, you need some cold hard support.

I'm still at a loss as to why these non-domestic rates are being chased for at your residential address. It's a limited company, yes? So the business rates would have been included on the blanc sheet?

I'd call the local authority - or get the DP to. Ask to speak to the correct department - recovery. Explain the situation the business is in. Ask for a 14-day reprieve so the business is able to submit to the business rates department it's finial position. The business rates administrator should agree to speak to the enforcement company and place the account and further action on hold.

Your DP then needs to gather all documentation together. See if the business qualifies for mandatory reduction in rates - for the years it has been in business. Assuming the business has a commercial lease agreement - then it's clear that it is the company that is liable and not your DP. I'm unclear as to why they they're turning up at your residential property. A personal guarantee for rent under a commercial lease is separate from those rates being for non-domestic purposes. As the lease required a personal guarantee, that does not equate to the rates being personally guaranteed. If the landlord gave your husband's name as the new commercial tenant instead of the company name, then your DP should have dealt with it.

Also, do check the year these rates are from. What dropped us in the shite was that we did not receive a bill for two years and that was because of the GE2015. We were also in commercial shared building and the landlord was only required to send in information on tenants periodically. We managed to get the enforcement agents called off for two weeks which gave us time to gather all the documents.

It does need dealing with - but you shouldn't be living in fear.

Hope that helps.

Thanks mc. The rates are in his habeas the lease is. The address is the shop address. The baliff said if we didn't pay up today then he will come straight to my home address as he knows where dp lives. So either he is lying or he has followed him. If the debt is in his name at the work address is he even allowed to come to our home address?

They still haven't been. So it will be soon as it will be before 9pm

Hi dumbfounded,

It's not a residential bill. The rates are assigned to the commercial premises.

Enforcement agents can and do follow up with comments designed to scare. Seen them do with a young mum in that they would go to her mother's house. Which they cannot do.

The lease should not have been in your DPs name. It should have been in the company. This is a non-domestic bill.

Has he called the recovery department in non-domestic rates? Even if in his name - they are allowed to pursue debtors to known addresses. However, as others have said, don't let them in and email their office and ask to speak with their welfare department. All enforcement companies have one. Don't hide, just don't let them in. They have until 9pm tonight and tomorrow. They cannot attend on Sunday.

Email their welfare department or put in subject line 'FAO welfare department'

Let them deal with it if he hasn't called recovery department at LA.

Thanks MC

@Dumbfounded212121

Did they come out?

Nope. I guess they will come today. Dp waited until 9:30pm just in case and the came home

Sending strength over, @Dumbfounded212121 - hoping you've emailed Rossendales.

I am doing it today. I was waiting for dp to come home and then had the kids taking it in turns to wake up so will do it this morning before he goes

ivykaty44
Thank you. I think that I will do something very similar and was already thinking along those lines. I have a standing order on payday taking the main part of my salary into another account from which direct debits are paid. I have been trying to build up a cushion for when the DD goes out before the SO comes in but I keep being hit by penalties and that has been eating up the cushion I was trying to build.

The guy at the sheriff officers setting up the payments said that they get a lot of council employees because of this and the council won't negotiate. I'm paying up to the end of the financial year to clear it, but the council wouldn't accept payments during the last three months of the financial year when they don't collect CT because of "systems". Some people on this thread don't realise that the councils won't always accept payments. Even online if their systems will only accept payments during certain months.

Councils will help if willingness is shown to pay any type of debt owed

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Both a friend who was a high ranking solicitor in the council before taking early retirement, and the sheriff officers themselves say that the council (plural from the sheriff officers) are extremely quick to farm out debts. I can pay the sheriff officers up to the end of the financial year but the council won't accept payments during the last two months of the financial year because they want it paid over ten months and their systems will not accept payments in February and March, even online.

The sheriff officers also said that they get many council employees because they are paid four weekly and payments are often demanded just before the very same council pays them. And then they won't accept arrangements paying up to the end of the financial year.....

www.lgo.org.uk/

OP, here's the Local Government Ombudsman for England.

I've used Ombudsmen twice, once for Scottish Power and once for RBS. Both times I got the decision on my side. In fact, I went from apparently owing Scottish Power over a grand to being in credit with them without paying a penny....

I was once told that a complaint to the Ombudsman can automatically generate a fine on the offending organisation for letting it get so bad, even before the case is looked at and investigated.