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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Karma is bollocks?!

18 replies

NellyandKelly · 14/11/2018 22:51

I don't know whether I'm just stressed out or what, but this whole 'do good and good will come to you' is absolute horseshit.

My husband and I are good people, I think. We feel quite deeply for those who are sad or underprivileged, especially as I grew up really poor. We don't make a huge amount of money but we'd always give our last tenner to someone who needed it. We are the first people to offer to help someone in need move house, donate furniture, take them to the hospital, even buy them a drink. That's just who we are. We don't film our good deeds or bang on about them, because we do them for genuine reasons.

So why is it, that the world likes to take a big old dump on us all of the time?! I have lost count of the death and destruction we have endured in just the last few years alone. I always used to believe in all the woo woo stuff and at the power of positive energy. I've never done a good deed in the hope it'd be paid back one day, but I used to think if I was putting positive energy out there then my life would feel happier. I swear it's getting worse and worse though.

Now I just feel defeated. Does anyone else think Karma is bollocks?

OP posts:
RedPandaMama · 14/11/2018 22:57

I thought karma was bollocks. We've had a shockingly bad couple of years in my family.

However... A girl who bullied me relentlessly throughout primary and secondary school recently moved into a house near me. I saw her and she ignored me and pretended she didn't know me, but didn't realise I heard her say to her boyfriend 'i went to school with her and hated her'. For absolutely NO reason, might I add. She's just a nasty person. To others as well, not just to me.

Found out today her new build house flooded because of faulty pipework. Couldn't help but feel a bit like karma was finally working.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 14/11/2018 23:07

Confused Of course Karma is bollocks.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 14/11/2018 23:15

Anyone who believes in karma is an idiot

Hippee · 14/11/2018 23:15

Spookily DS1's homework tonight was to write about karma - he told me "it doesn't exist" - possibly because I keep threatening him with it when he's mean to his siblings and nothing has happened yet.

It is hard to accept that good people have shit things happen to them - have just heard that the DHs of two lovely friends have life-threatening illnesses Sad. I am going to keep on trying to be good though.

noego · 14/11/2018 23:18

Humanities › Religion & Spirituality

Buddhism and Karma

Introduction to the Buddhist Understanding of Karma

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Water Lily
Ganymede Photography Getty

Religion and Spirituality

by Barbara O'Brien

Updated September 19, 2017

Karma is a word everyone knows, yet few in the West understand what it means. Westerners too often think it means "fate" or is some kind of cosmic justice system. This is not a Buddhist understanding of karma, however.

Karma is a Sanskrit word that means "action." Sometimes you might see the Pali spelling, kamma, which means the same thing. In Buddhism, karma has a more specific meaning, which is volitional or willful action. Things we choose to do or say or think set karma into motion. The law of karma is therefore a law of cause and effect as defined in Buddhism.

Sometimes Westerners use the word karma to mean the result of karma. For example, someone might say John lost his job because "that's his karma." However, as Buddhists use the word, karma is the action, not the result. The effects of karma are spoken of as the "fruits" or the "result" of karma.

Teachings on the laws of karma originated in Hinduism, but Buddhists understand karma somewhat differently from Hindus. The historical Buddha lived 26 centuries ago in what are now Nepal and India, and on his quest for enlightenment he sought out Hindu teachers. However, the Buddha took what he learned from his teachers in some very new and different directions.

The Liberating Potential of Karma

Theravada Buddhist teacher Thanissaro Bhikkhu explains some of these differences in this illuminating essay on karma. In the Buddha's day, most religions of India taught that karma operated in a simple straight line- past actions influence the present; present actions influence the future. But to Buddhists, karma is non-linear and complex. Karma, the Ven. Thanissaro Bhikku says, "acts in multiple feedback loops, with the present moment being shaped both by past and by present actions; present actions shape not only the future but also the present."

Thus, in Buddhism, although the past has some influence on the present, the present also is shaped by the actions of the present. Walpola Rahula explained in What the Buddha Taught (Grove Press, 1959, 1974) why this is significant:

"...instead of promoting resigned powerlessness, the early Buddhist notion of karma focused on the liberating potential of what the mind is doing with every moment. Who you arewhat you come fromis not anywhere near as important as the mind's motives for what it is doing right now. Even though the past may account for many of the inequalities we see in life, our measure as human beings is not the hand we've been dealt, for that hand can change at any moment. We take our own measure by how well we play the hand we've got."

What You Do Is What Happens to You

When we seem stuck in old, destructive patterns, it may not be the karma of the past that's causing us to be stuck. If we're stuck, it's more likely that we're re-creating the same old patterns with our present thoughts and attitudes. To change our karma and change our lives, we have to change our minds. Zen teacher John Daido Loori said, "Cause and effect are one thing. And what is that one thing? You. That’s why what you do and what happens to you are the same thing."

Certainly, the karma of the past impacts your present life, but change is always possible.

No Judge, No Justice

Buddhism also teaches that there are other forces besides karma that shape our lives. These include natural forces such as the changing seasons and gravity. When a natural disaster such as an earthquake strikes a community, this is not some kind of collective karmic punishment. It's an unfortunate event that requires a compassionate response, not judgment.

Some people have a hard time understanding karma is created by our own actions. Perhaps because they are raised with other religious models, they want to believe there is some kind of mysterious cosmic force directing karma, rewarding good people and punishing bad people. This is not the position of Buddhism. Buddhist scholar Walpola Rahula said,

"The theory of karma should not be confused with so-called 'moral justice' or 'reward and punishment'. The idea of moral justice, or reward and punishment, arises out of the conception of a supreme being, a God, who sits in judgment, who is a law-giver and who decides what is right and wrong. The term 'justice' is ambiguous and dangerous, and in its name more harm than good is done to humanity. The theory of karma is the theory of cause and effect, of action and reaction; it is a natural law, which has nothing to do with the idea of justice or reward and punishment."

The Good, the Bad and the Karma

Sometimes people talk about "good" and "bad" (or "evil") karma. Buddhist understanding of "good" and "evil" is somewhat different from the way Westerners usually understand these terms. To see the Buddhist perspective, it's useful to substitute the words "wholesome" and "unwholesome" for "good" and "evil." Wholesome actions spring from selfless compassion, loving-kindness and wisdom. Unwholesome actions spring from greed, hate, and ignorance. Some teachers use similar terms, such as "helpful and unhelpful," to convey this idea.

Karma and Rebirth

The way most people understand reincarnation is that a soul, or some autonomous essence of self, survives death and is reborn into a new body. In that case, it's easy to imagine the karma of a past life sticking to that self and being carried over to a new life. This is largely the position of Hindu philosophy, where it is believed that a discrete soul is reborn again and again. But Buddhist teachings are very different.

The Buddha taught a doctrine called anatman, or anatta--no soul, or no self. According to this doctrine, there is no "self" in the sense of a permanent, integral, autonomous being within an individual existence. What we think of as our self, our personality and ego, are temporary creations that do not survive death.

In light of this doctrine--what is it that is reborn? And where does karma fit in?

When asked this question, the renowned Tibetan Buddhist teacher Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, borrowing concepts from modern psychological theory, said that what gets reborn is our neurosismeaning that it is our karmic bad habits and ignorance that gets rebornuntil such time as we awaken fully. The question is a complex one for Buddhists, and not one for which there is a single answer. Certainly, there are Buddhists that believe in literal rebirth from one life to the next, but there are also others who adopt a modern interpretation, suggesting that rebirth refers to the repetitious cycle of bad habits we may follow if we have an insufficient understanding of our true natures.

Whatever interpretation is offered, though, Buddhists are united in the belief that our actions affect both current and future conditions, and that escape from the karmic cycle of dissatisfaction and suffering is possible.

Jungster · 14/11/2018 23:23

👍👩‍🏫 @noego

Ditto66 · 14/11/2018 23:29

OP I am sorry life is so tough for you at the moment. I hope it gets easier. I like your attitude to life - it's one I share - to do the right thing and not be showy or self-seeking about it. Like you I've had terrible luck, worst being DH dying 2 years ago, leaving me with 3 DCs. He was a truly kind and decent man, young and healthy. So no I don't believe in karma at all. I found it offensive when I learned about it in a Buddhist meditation class a few years ago. If karma exists then we should venerate the rich and powerful ffs. Trump ffs! I still believe in doing the right thing. It's nothing to do with karma but it is about character and self- respect. If you want to get deep read victor frankl's man's search for meaning. Take care. X

ToffeeNosed · 14/11/2018 23:29

Funnily, we were discussing this yesterday and here is the consensus: When something good happens to good people or bad happens to bad people then it's "good karma" or "karma's a bitch ain't it?" but no explanation (on the karma highway) for bad things happening to good people or vice versa. (I suppose "God moves in mysterious ways" may cover it).
But I do believe being good to others and having a generous and forgiving outlook will make for a more stress free life than one of resentment and anger.
I'm rambling now...

noego · 14/11/2018 23:33

@jungster

Is the username a reference to Carl Jung?

MyShinyWhiteTeeth · 14/11/2018 23:33

I think if you don't forgive people then the anger and bitterness spoils your enjoyment of life.

If you believe in karma then it allows you to let go of the issue. The people that hurt you will eventually get what they deserve so you can let go and live well.

The benefits of believing in Karma is more for the people who are hurt than those that cause the hurt.

sistersismaye · 14/11/2018 23:38

Not sure but true or not, it's a bitch

TheFreaksShallInheritTheEarth · 14/11/2018 23:40

If you are a Buddhist/ Hindu/Jain and Karma is part of how you describe life according to your beliefs, fair enough; if you believe in it as a cosmic justice system then frankly you're a twit.

Oysterbabe · 14/11/2018 23:43

I'm a big believer in karma. That's why whenever anything bad and unfair happens to me I always go out and push over an old lady to even the score.

BonnieF · 14/11/2018 23:52

For people who are not Buddhists, belief in karma is a coping mechanism. It helps if we try to believe that the world is, in some fundamental way, fair and just and that bad people will ultimately get what they deserve.

Deep down, however, we know that isn’t true at all. Human societies disproportionately reward the selfish, the greedy, the brutal, the dishonest and the ruthless. Ask Philip Green, Vladimir Putin, Fred Goodwin or Donald Trump.

Badbilly · 15/11/2018 00:08

If you are a Buddhist/ Hindu/Jain and Karma is part of how you describe life according to your beliefs, fair enough; if you believe in it as a cosmic justice system then frankly you're a twit.

Totally agree. I don’t like the way many eastern beliefs get adapted into a western way of life where they get so watered down and “reinvented” to fit into some trendy western faux philosophy without adapting the whole belief system, and so just cherry picking a good bit, and ignoring the whole part about the stages of re-incarnation, and the ultimate goal of being at one with the universe.
I can also rant about yoga as well😀

noego · 15/11/2018 07:40

@Badbilly

many eastern beliefs get adapted into a western way of life where they get so watered down and “reinvented” to fit into some trendy western faux philosophy without adapting the whole belief system, and so just cherry picking a good bit, and ignoring the whole part about the stages of re-incarnation, and the ultimate goal of being at one with the universe

I agree.

In truth Karma is about cause and effect. In the case of the OP. They are generous and show compassion for humankind. They get satisfaction from doing good deeds and the recipient shows appreciation. That is Karma.
To then believe that there is some cosmic judge that will smooth your human life path by handing out punishment to other humans that you judge not to be worthy is illusory.

TheFreaksShallInheritTheEarth · 15/11/2018 07:54

For people who are not Buddhists, belief in karma is a coping mechanism. It helps if we try to believe that the world is, in some fundamental way, fair and just and that bad people will ultimately get what they deserve

But that's not even what Karma means.

echt · 15/11/2018 08:27

Of course karma is bollocks. To paraphrase a novel whose tile I forget right now: What do think childhood leukaemia is for; not sharing your toys?

It's magical thinking.

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