AIBU to think 4 year olds have a right to privacy?

[CGaus]

This afternoon I was at a gymnastics with my daughters. I was sitting in the changing rooms as DD1 (7yo) was getting changed, whilst DD2 (4yo) was in her gymnastics class. 4 girls in that class including DD came in to use the toilets (without a teacher). Soon 2 of the girls started looking under the stalls, even crawling underneath the cubicle DD was using and saying things along the lines of “I can see her bum, eww you’re wiping your bum”, etc. Nothing you wouldn’t expect from 4-5 year olds but surely not acceptable behaviour regardless of the age of the child. I got up and said in a firm (not shouting) voice “We do not look under the toilets, that is not acceptable, please get up of the floor”. The children didn’t respond at all to what I said. There was another mother in the room who was on her phone and didn’t seem to notice/mind what was going on. At least not until I spoke up, she then came over and ignored me completely, she just said to her daughter “Don’t worry about it you’re fine let’s go back to class!”. AIBU in speaking to the child rather than finding a teacher/parent? In the moment I just wanted to stand up for my daughter, we’re trying to teach her about body autonomy and privacy and I felt really uncomfortable with this situation. AIBU to expect a bit more supervision from the teachers at this age?

I think you're right but small children do that sort of thing. The other mother was probably embarrassed but may say to her child, when she has her on her own, that it isn't the thing to do. Don't make a deal out of it, not worth it, but, as I said, you were right. Children have to understand the need for privacy but - it takes time.

Have a quiet word with the teacher. I did the same with my dn classes and they made it compulsory for all children under 6 to need parental supervision for the loo. It meant that those kids’ parents couldn’t drop and run too but it has helped my dn.

You 100% did the right thing, you had no idea that was the girl’s mother before so it was fine to speak. Most importantly you advocated for your daughters privacy which is a powerful message for her and an important one.

As a child who’s mother never did that I can attest to how much it affects you knowing your DM never has your back. Plus it is very empowering. I never felt empowered to assert myself.

You did the right thing

And also I believe strongly that all children, even babies, have a right to privacy, dignity and respect

Speak to the teacher. Complain in the strongest possible terms.

That behaviour was absolutely not on. There is natural potty/poo/pee fascination that you see in newly potty trained kids, and there is what you saw today - the uninvited invasion of a private space and the embarrassing of the child using the loo, and the general nastiness. The girls who did this are bullies and need a stern talking to.

I would have intervened too, but I have honestly never seen anything like that in all the years of schlepping children to various classes and to and from loos. I live in the US and children (and adults) seem far less interested in other people's butts and body functions here.

YANBU that is not on and sometimes there is no time to find the teacher or parent.
I would have done the same.

YANBU and I’m shocked that the mother allowed her child to do that.

You were right to tell them. And yanbu.

Who doesn't teach their kids this stuff fgs.

Mine have never peered under doors nor would they. Thought that was pretty basic stuff.. .

Children are completely entitled to privacy when they are on the toilet and you were 100% right to intervene when you did and in the way that you did. The other mother was useless.

AIBU to expect a bit more supervision from the teachers at this age?
This is where I disagree with you. The teachers are there to teach the gymnastics class and to ensure appropriate behaviour in the lesson. Parents should be supervising when the children are changing.

Yanbu.

If these 4 year olds were at school, they'd be in big trouble.

YANBU and I agree you should talk to the teacher/organisation.
The other mother's attitude was poor.

“You’re fine.”

That would have really annoyed me!

Yanbu

4-5 is old enough to know better.
It’s rude, unhygienic and bullying behaviour.

Not the gym teachers job to do changing and toileting duty. Maybe suggest a no unsupervised children policy.

Apart from anything else, the thought of a child crawling on a toilet floor gives me the heebie-jeebies. You'd think the other mother would have reacted to that.

Me to Juells !

We’re home from gymnastics now. My husband and I spoke to the head of the gymnastics club after the class. They apologized profusely and ensured us that it’s their policy to have an adult supervise children this age whenever possible, and indeed the teacher was just outside in the corridor “within earshot” but they acknowledged that from now on supervision will mean having the (female) teacher in the changing rooms with the girls.

We had a great conversation on the way home about safety, privacy, bullying, who can/should see or touch our bodies etc.

Ghostandgoulies - the gymnastics is held in my children’s school, though the classes are run by different non-classroom gym coaches/teachers if that makes sense. I think I may speak to someone in the school outside of the gymnastics staff as well in case these girls are doing this during the school day, but I also don’t want to blow this out of proportion because really my daughter wasn’t harmed. On the other hand I know that once the children are in Prep next year there isn’t any supervision in the toilets so I feel this needs to be sorted now.

Thanks for the support everyone!

I've been stressing privacy and personal dignity to my dd since she was tiny (part of gentle chat about our bodies). Privacy and control over her own body should be a natural expectation.

I hate passive parents like this, who are setting their kids up for bad behaviour because they can't be bothered to parent properly. I woukd mention it to tge gym instructor it is not acceptable.

Yes Shockers - it was the “you’re fine” comment that really annoyed me too - she was essentially saying that what her child was doing was ok, when it really wasn’t. It wasn’t that I’m trying to accuse her daughter of sexual misconduct! I know they’re only young but that means they are still learning, and body autonomy and respect for others is an incredibly important thing for children to learn, like bellinisurge said privacy should be an expectation and as a parent I have a responsibly to teach and protect.

Blimey!
If it's 'fine' to peer under the toilet door, it's equally 'fine' to accidentally kick the face of whoever is doing it!!

I would have sad something too and it's totally unacceptable for kids to be peering underneath toilet doors. The other mum was out of line.

I don't really think that the gym teacher can supervise every toilet visit though- it's just not practical as it would require 3 teachers to run one class. At this age they should be able to use the toilet themselves, my ds is in reception and the toilets thee aren't supervised.

As long as parents do not inculcate values to their children. Bullying takes its place. Sad to say but its true.

The simple fix to this is one child in, one child out. Ie until the first child has come back from the toilet, the second cannot go.

I'm sure someone will complain when their child wets themselves though. Although I'd be minded to remind them that this action has only been taken due to their children not behaving themselves in the toilet.

I'm surprised tbh that the coach let 4 children go to the toilet at once, or are their water bottles kept in the changing room and they had been sent for a drink (this happens at our gymnasium).

As for the other mother... words fail me. I'd be in there like a shot as soon as I heard my child's voice messing around and apologising to your dd. But I guess not every parent sees it as a problem.

I'm not saying the child was about to mike at your dd. But when even schools are drumming the pants rules into children, I'm sure that mother would have something to say if another child did the same to hers.