If a dog bites, should it be pts?

[Snappedandfarted1]

After a discussion with my dog loving friend, I’m curious as to how many of you dog owners would have your pet pts if it bit you or a member of your family? I don’t mean just a nip, I mean a bite which bleeds a fair amount and requires stitches.

To me, that says that a dog cannot be trusted around a human at all and should be pts, but my friends opinion is that unless the bite causes serious damage it should ultimately be ignored. She did agree that an elderly dog should be pts in this situation but not a young or middle aged dog.

Opinions?

ali you seem to think your dad is some kind of dog god and therefore knows everything there is to know about dogs.

Alas, the very fact that he thinks any dog (which has no concept of self) is 'wicked'.

Dad did have one dog though who was absolutely brilliant who would 'at the sniff of a female it appears' dash off mid rounding up the cattle to be with him a woman! Dad concluded he's a 'fucking genius but a useless cunt'. They continued to annoy each other until the dog's death. He was my favourite. 'Sorry boss, must dash, a female needs my attention'

No, my Dad just knows and works with them for actually nearing 70 years now. He's not a dog God. But he has owned, trained and had to pts some dogs in his lifetime. Ones that bit. A lot. Because believe me it takes a lot for my Dad to actually put a dog to sleep.

I'd definitely get a dog put to sleep if it bit somebody unprovoked. The seriousness of the bite is irrelevant, a light bite today may be a nasty one tomorrow - or their next victim might be elderly, or a baby.

The only reason I'd not get it put to sleep would be if there was obvious good cause for the bite, eg it bit someone who was violently assaulting me.

@Alilwolf again, snapping at the heels of whatever it's chasing is a normal sheep dog trait. A useful one in a working dog.
Most farmers wouldn't give a monkeys about papers as long as the dog can do the job.

The fact that you've termed one 'stupid' and one 'wicked' really shows how little knowledge you have on the subject

Being pure bred means jack shit when it comes to temperament 🙄 usually pure breed just means higher price tag

Pure bred usually means extra narky fucker.

In sheep dog terms, it's actually very important that you know the temperament of the parents and grandparents. So I'll beg to differ on that one too! Why do I feel like I'm being picked on here!

Then again, the pair of delinquents seem to come from less than royal stock. Will text my Dad.

You can still know the temperament of generations of crossbreeds. Just because they're crosses doesn't mean they're any better or worse than purebreeds...just means their breed crosses are skewed!

You're not being picked on, people are picking up on your points & rebuffing them. Kind of what happens on a forum...

Text from Dad 'No papers'.

So now I'm going to give him a lecture lol. I'll leave you lot to telling me how I'm wrong about everything ;)

@Alilwolf I'm sorry but you're talking utter bollocks 🙈
My dog (cross breed 😱) comes from working stock. His dad was a working sheepdog (yes he snapped at the heels of the animals in his herd, fantastic sheepdog 🙄) and his mum also joined in (she was a golden retriever though, go figure)
My dog is kept as a pet although needs the mental and physical stimulation of a working dog, which he gets. He'd have been perfectly capable of working the herd had we wanted him to.
No papers
You're not being picked on, there's no personal attacks here, but people are obviously going to disagree with what you're saying because it's nonsense 🤷🏼‍♀️

In defence of Alilwolf (only this bit mind) I think her dad uses 'wicked' in the old Yorkshire sense of very naughty / unpleasant.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what your point is Wishywashy (apt username)?

Wink I'm not sure what alternative interpretation of the word there is?

You moan that you are being picked on yet actually you are the only one who has made personal remarks about other users. Grow up.

Putting a dog to sleep because it is naughty is even worse than putting one to sleep because it can't do the job you want it to do! So which ever way you interpret the word 'wicked' - which to me is intentionally cruel or nasty - it still looks shitty

My dog bit my ex and I wouldn't put her to sleep for it. No way!

My dog is a beautiful, friendly and loving girl. Never shown aggression before or since (5 years ago).

My ex had a rotten temper and would be quite aggressive (never physical), which used to frighten me.

One day we had friends coming to visit, we needed to go supermarket and walk the dog before they arrived. He offered to do the walk (I usually walked her) and so I went to shops.

When I was out, he rang me. Screaming at me to get home as my dog had bit him. I couldn't believe it, but left the shopping and rushed home.

Turns out she had slipped her lead on the walk and gave him the runaround as she thought it was a game, it took him 20 mins of running round a field to catch her and he only did catch her as a family walked by and she ran over to them as she loves people.

He dragged her home shouting and swearing, then when he got in, she was backed into the corner in the hallway and he carried on screaming at her, looming over her. He then went to unclip her lead and she just went for him, bit his arm!

He had to go to hospital. He had two bleeding and gaping wounds that were cleaned out and he had a tetanus.

I was mortified she'd bit him, but upset that he'd behaved so aggressively towards her and backed her into a corner. He was 6'2" and 14 stones, I don't blame her for trying to protect herself and never once considered having her PTS.

BF is long gone, my now DP of 4 years and my dog are the best of friends and she absoluely worships him, never shown any aggression. DP also doesn't have an angry bone in his body.

@Alilwolf FFS if your dad had a first aid badge from the scouts you'd be claiming he knew more than a consultant surgeon.

Frequency has talked a lot of sense - unsurprising given her expertise.
Unfortunately you are coming across as someone who sits on it and talks from it at the same time.

My father also trains working dogs (gun rather than sheep) and you are talking crap about wicked dogs. The only truly untrainable dog I've ever come across had brain damage.
There is even, rather famously in shooting circles, a lab born without eyes who was trained to Gundog standard - all it took was the right trainer.

Depends on what triggered the bite

Alilwolf you know Border Collie puppies naturally have high prey drive and are prone to nipping feet and ankles don't you?

Most collie owners manage to train them out of the undesirable traits very early.

Border Collies are highly intelligent, they need stimulation, they aim to please their owner. They need a "job". That job doesn't have to be herding. Not all Collies make great sheep/cattle herders. Usually because they are either uninterested, too timid or have too high a prey drive. Border Collies shouldn't be pts because they nip or chase.

I was given a collie pup in my teens, because the farmer deemed her unsuitable for herding. I worked my socks off with that dog and earned the title "Young shepherd of the year". It's absolute bollocks to say a collie has to be pts because it's owner cant/Don't want to put the hours of training in.

All puppies nip. All Collies have high prey drive. No dog is impossible to train - especially border Collies.

I've had 3 BC's as well as other breeds. The Collies have been by far the easiest to train. Maybe in your case the collie was more intelligent than your dad. Because he is talking utter bollocks!

You get out of a dog what you put in. It sounds like your dad put nothing in. Just expected an overpriced dog to know what to do.

Professional hat on..

Dog bites need to be examined carefully, what happened before the bite occurred (both immediatley and the longer term past behaviour/experiences).

What happened exactly, in the specific circumstances of the bite.

What happened afterwards.

AND one needs to look at the dog, the management of the dog, the size of the dog, the capabilities of the owner, the home environment, etc etc.

Behaviourists have a 'bite scale' to refer to which helps determine the severity of a bite.

0 - no contact made (since dogs do not miss, a 'muzzle punch' is intentional but not a bite)
all the way through to...
6 - victim dead.

Someone earlier mentioned unprovoked bites - no such thing exists. Dogs have a reason to bite, it may be that the reason is they are ill, in pain, have previously been taught that warning people and communicating is pointless so go straight for the bite, and of course like us they are capable of making mistakes and reading a situation wrong.

The most common situation behind 'unprovoked' bites is actually a dog that has suffered endless provocation, been punished for baring teeth, growling, snapping etc until what you are left with is a dog who bites without warning.

Should a dog be euthanised... depends on whether we know why the dog bit, can we avoid that happening again, can we modify the dogs behaviour or has that gone too far, is the owner willing and able to be responsible, is the physical environment hte dog is kept in suitable, can the dog be found a more suitable home and would it be ethical and kind to attempt any of this if the dog is severely anxious or scared or in pain.

So no it isn't clear cut as to whether a bite = immediate euthanasia nor should it be.

It is sad that people still want to blame and exact revenge on an animal for an action that is almost always the result of human failure.

Well said @WiddlinDiddlin

@Alilwolf
My point is you're completely fabricating facts about dogs and in your attempt to sound knowledgeable you're actually just sounding more and more ridiculous.

I'll ignore your comment about my user name based on the fact you know absolutely nothing about me, therefore judging my entire character on the basis of one discussion would be silly wouldn't it? Then again.....

I agree with Ali in a fair amount of what he says. Most unwanted behaviour is caused by poor training or care, but some pets are just knobs. Just like some people are. I'm tired of this recent belief that all dog issues are caused by their owners. It's just not true although most are. Some are just born fearful and distrusting. Others are born very dominant or enjoy a scrap. No amount of training changes the basic nature and character totally. I say this as the owner of very many pets and someone who's life revolves around my animals.

Also, people that mention rehoming a working sheepdog - that's likely to be cruel too. Taking a dog that's out running for ten hours a day then putting it into a pet home isn't likely to work. For any type of unreliable dog the number of safe and suitable homes to go to is terribly limited anyway.

If a large or powerful dog is unreliable, then pts should be considered strongly. One error by the owners could result in serious damage. The risk in my mind is great. A smaller dog, the risk is lessened and the options therefore are greater.

@Namechange000001
Totally disagree. Unless there's a medical reason I've never once come across any animal that's been born 'a knob'
I've worked with cattle, sheep, horses and dogs for over 20 years.
What qualifies an animal as a knob? Alilwolf seems to think its exhibiting traits which are natural to the animal but undesirable to the human? Which is a bit like saying humans are knobs for walking on 2 legs instead of 4 🤷🏼‍♀️