Money, In Laws, and Xmas problems..AIBU indeed?

[MatchaMama9]

Bit of a long one, bear with me. This is mainly about attitude towards money that my in-laws have, and how I'm struggling to deal with it.

Husband comes from a family of six kids (incl. him). We're in Melbourne, Australia. Xmas is spent with my in-laws clan. I don't have much of a family in town, so the past 14 years of our relationship, even before having a kid and being married, it's usually a family event spent at his parents' house.

Xmas almost always involves a mountain of presents. I hate it. A lot of it is wasteful, people just love buying crap and giving it to one another. My mum-in-law and a few of the siblings tend to be quite extravagant about this.

It's starting to create tension now that little ones are in the mix. On one hand, I want to teach my kid restraint. I don't want him to grow up spoiled with mountains of presents. The 3 kids are very close in age (15 months, 2 year old, and 3.5 year old). Ours is right in the middle. While it's very special to have this xmas with his cousins, I can't change how my in-laws behave without causing some kind of crazy fight. Husband and some of the siblings have started a campaign of 'buy less gifts, pool money together and buy bigger more meaningful presents'. So that's ok, I guess, but I still find the whole thing such an ordeal. We also have to go away over the holiday period, because everyone wants to be together, and it's hard to find a house big enough to fit 14 adults (including partners of some of the siblings, etc), its a 4 hour drive away from Melbourne, I'm anxious and nervous about the suffocating feeling I get from being with everyone ovr several days. I have Post Natal Depression and these kinds of situations where I end up feeling like my personal space is being 'invaded', can trigger some really bad attacks.

At the moment the plan is just to grin and bear it...

On a slightly separate issue, one of my sister in laws (the one with the 3.5 year old girl), is a single mum on a pretty low income. I love her dearly and she's been taking our son every Monday, saving us money on childcare/nursery, and my son get to be with family that loves him. She won't take money for all this work, and part of what we're doing in return for her is to keep up with these crazy Xmas traditions, as that means a lot to her.

She also wants to start a 'trust fund' for her daughter, that she can access when she's 15 or 18 years old. I want to contribute but I don't know what level would be appropriate. Myself and husband both get to work a lot more thanks to her help with our son. So we're grateful. But As mentioned above, half the in-laws clan really has a problem with self-restraint. Husband and I work hard and we've denied ourselves a bunch of stuff over the years, hardly ever indulging in anything. Whereas my sister in law used to really over-indulge, especially where parties and alcohol was concerned, right up until she was pregnant with her daughter.

Also, she's really smart, and capable, and amazing, but somehow never ending up with a degree or a decent-paying job, somehow just drifting along in life until she accidentally got pregnant and decided to keep the baby. She's finally trying to get her life back on track, planning to study to become a primary school teacher next year, and we're all so happy for her.

Can you wise mums tell me how I can reconcile my feelings about the matter? What's a reasonable way of helping my sister in law, while still feeling like we have not somewhat be responsible too much for her lack of financial discipline? I really want to contribute financially towards her daughter's trust fund and have a better attitude in myself towards the whole in-laws clan as a whole, but I don't know how. My feelings of love and gratitude keeps mingling with resentment. Thoughts?

Why not out say 20 dollars or similar amount in each day she looks after your child they eat her child benefits in the future form the childcare her mum gives you now so you can work and earn more money now? That way it doesn't get wasted by her mum but goes to something useful like her DD future

Pick an amount, tot it up each month and pay it in

There's obviously a lot of issues there but I think the main thing is that you need to pay your sil a fair rate for the childcare she has been providing you (backdated). It sounds like it would be most appropriate to pay that money into her daughters trust fund but you need to confirm she is happy with that plan.
As for Christmas maybe one year on one year odd with the inlaws?

They eat = then

I would put some of the money that you are saving from free childcare into a bank account for her (I’m in Aus too so I know how pricy childcare can be) - I don’t think you have any obligation apart from that, especially if her parents are so spendy. Can’t she ask them for fewer presents and some money into a trust?

To be honest, families and money are rife with problems so unless this affects you outside of Xmas (eg unless they’re always buying things for your family) I would just suck it up once a year, take some presents for re gifting and not get too involved in providing trusts and things.

Anyone else find this confusing? Surely great idea that siblings have recognised buying mountains of crap stupid and pooling together to buy less but better?

I do understand the travel and following incarceration is difficult butt SIL issue? Yes, she has shit past but she's doing her utmost to get by that, including helping you out!

What about taking the money you would have had to pay for a childminder for the day she takes your kid and starting a savings account / trust fund for her daughter?

I don't know about OZ but the UK has loads of tax free ISAs or other saving schemes for kids.

I would work out what you are saving in childcare then pay her a portion of that directly in to the trust fund. This does become awkward though if she has another child as that child won't have the same ability to 'earn' money from you that DD1 has.

As for the present situation, maybe ask for 'experiences' rather than gifts, swimming lessons, dance classes, zoo passes etc are all good presents that everyone can chip in for without you having all that stuff junking your house up.

I'm struggling with the term "trust fund" tbh which to me implies mega money - I am sure your SIL might aspire to that but it looks like she is just setting up a savings account for her child which many families do. I think all you can do is to pay her for the childcare - she could choose to put that money into her daughter's account if she wants to - and give cash gifts for Christmas and birthday.

Any chance you could get your own accommodation for the Christmas trip? That way you could duck in and out as it suits you.

I would probably stop with the crazy presents except a token gift. My sister is the same, it is shocking, I have never seen her kids play with a toy in their lives! I would start to put a near equivalent amount to what you save in childcare in her child’s bank account though. If it was slightly less, you are still getting a good deal, but don’t take advantage.

Firstly presents. You CAN just say “ we’re cutting back this year, so only buying for children / spending £10 (obviously the Aus$ equivalent) per person”.

We did and actually everyone has been fine or said’phew, works for us too’

But so what if people grumble, they grumble, you just stick to it.

As for your SIL, I think you need to get off your high horse about her ‘past’. So she had fun, lived her life the way she wanted.
Unless you’re about to say she was a shoplifting, alcoholic, drug user then it sounds like she was like most young people who were footloose and responsiblity free.

That is until she was pregnant and seemingly has settled down and has a long term plan. Which in part massively helps you out.

The conversation I would be having with her is to once again offer to pay her for the childcare.
If she says no then say that instead you’ll transfer the money into her daughters saving account.

If she says yes then pay her and offer to reduce whatvyou sprnd on birthday and Christmas presents for her daughter to a token gift and will start to put the rest of what you’d spend into her savings account.

Good post from MimiSunshine.

Tbh, I don't think it behoves you to be sniffy and judgemental about someone who is helping you out massively and indeed helping you do the saving of which you are so proud. 'Get her life back on track'? You make it sound as if she's been in prison or something.

Many people who pride themselves on their 'financial discipline' lose sight of the advantages they have had in life which mean they have been able to be 'good with money'. Your SIL is providing you with one of those advantages atm. Don't be those people.

The answer to this is really very obvious - contribute the money she is saving you on childcare, or a decent chunk of it, to her savings account (agree 'trust fund' is the wrong expression) each month.

It really is fine to say to the ILs 'you do it like that, we do it like this'.

You sound very sneery about your sil who is doing a wonderful thing for you and saving you a fortune. So she's a single parent and is only just thinking about a professional career? There's nothing to judge. The sensible thing would be to pay the money you'd spend on a childminder into the savings account for her child. You sound like you think you're better than you in-laws

Are you seeking treatment for the PND?

I’d give her $100 a day cash for looking after your ds and if she wants to put it into and account for her child then that’s up to her.

I think I am a bit judgemental because I disapprove of the way my MIL raised the kids without any skills of saving money. I come from quite a poor family, from a third world country, and my parents raised us to know how to delay gratification and save money. Another sibling from the in laws family earned more than me every year yet has barely any savings and we are the same age. This sister in law is really an amazing person and I love her to bits and yes you’re all right, I need to be careful about what I think of people who may have had a very different emotional problems than what i have.

Is it still PND when the child is now 2? Or depression? You don't seem to like his family, or their values, or what they find important. Pay into an account when the SIL has your son. Accept that different people like different ways of 'doing' Christmas. If you don't want heaps of presents- say that. Others clearly have. The whole time seems a bit sneery to be honest. I'm not actually sure what your issues are.

There wasn’t anything in your post that screamed crazy in terms of Christmas. It is nice for families to get together and in some families Christmas is a big thing. When you say it feels excessive, how much are you spending on Christmas and what sort of gifts are the children getting?

As for your SIl, it’s irrelevant that she likes to party when she was younger. She is retraining which can be tough as a single parent. She is doing you a massive favour and if you feel able to, contributing to her child’s savings seems like a good thing to do given the amount of money she’ll be saving you. Her idea to set up a long-term account for her child doesn’t suggest she’s lacking financial discipline.

I didn't get the sense that the OP is sneery or judgemental towards her SIL at all In fact I understood the OP to be very grateful to her SIL and supportive of her plans for the future.

Like others I would put a fair amount into your SIL's daughter's bank account based on a reduced child care rate. Perhaps a card to your SIL stating the amount and expressing your gratitude for all her help - though I'm sure she's aware of this - along with some flowers and maybe chocolate for her.

With regards to the present situation I think it's a little too close to Christmas to do something about it this years as some may already have done their Christmas shopping. Let your DH take the lead as he seems to have a plan already. See how it goes. If it is unsuccessful take it up a few months after Christmas and see how everyone else is feeling. Maybe just go with you wanting to reduce expenses in 2019.

I have no advice as to the going away over Christmas situation, but I really feel for you as that must be very tough for you with your PND.

Presumably you'd be equally happy for your employer to pay your salary into an account that can only be used for a purpose they approve of?

I don't know what purpose asking other people how to improve your bad attitude serves. If you know you have a bad attitude (which you do) then change it.

You could write a cheque and say its for the trustfund.

In terms of mil and others there isn't anything you can do they are grown adults but you can set the tarif of your own presents etc

It sounds as though you begrudge paying something into your dns trust fund because you are judging the SILs life choices before having her child. But surely the money would be in recognition of the huge favour she's doing you, by saving you a large amount of money on formal childcare? Or are you saying that employers are entitled to comb back through their employees past to find reasons to pay them less for the work they do now?
Christmas - don't really see an issue with what happens, if you don't want to join in, then don't. But don't make out that doing it is in some way a favour to your SIL.

Half the family feels the Xmas present amount has become ridiculously over the top. So it’s not just me as “the outsider”. The two single mums have had to move back to their parents house as the one with Lower income can’t afford rent anymore, which is understandable because here in Melbourne rent is also crazy high. On the day of their moving back into the parents house, the other sister (the one who has high income), cried because she was so stressed about how much crap is in the parents house and in the sisters’ possession. Some of the other siblings have had concerns about mum in law over her spending addiction. It’s become worse over the years. Not sure if I’m sneery but I just witness this spiralling out of control. Last year it took 6 hours to open presents; the tradition is for the youngest to the oldest of the sibling to pick a random one from the pile and give it to the person it’s meant for, and everyone gets to see what each person gets. It’s really lovely as an idea but lately have had to speed it up that it’s just a blur, two presents at once, then three, and we hardly remember what each of us got anymore. Even dad in law is a bit concerned about it but every time we try to raise this, half the family gets upset about being told what to do.
So yes, a source of tension. For everyone. I been happy to swallow it but I really don’t want our son to see this crazy amount of stuff that mostly will end up thrown away, and think this is Christmas, while a lot of people who have nothing would be grateful for enough food and shelter over the holidays.

Thank you kindly @AnotherRuinedShirt. Well put indeed.

Thanks everyone. Sorted. Thanks for the honest talk. Will do my best and yes @BertrandRussell I’m going thru therapy for my PnD.

Tho has to remember -

The choices you make every day with your son will be more important than the once-a-year extravaganza.

As the children get older the piles will get smaller anyway.

The time to change a tradition is not close to Christmas... start discussing a Secret Santa idea for the adults, at least, for next year. Discuss it on Boxing Day? If the grandmother wants to keep spending separately for the children that’s OK.

For your SIL who helps with childcare it seems pretty simple - she won’t accept money fir herself and she wants to save fir her child’s future. So agree to contribute to the savings account for her child. And offer to babysit as much as possible when she needs to study next year.

Since at least three different siblings all have young children, why don't you suggest that a trust fund is started for each of them and whatever would be spent on a present could be invested there instead.

Maybe you can then suggest that other presents are limited to stocking fillers. At that age the kids won't really notice. And that any money for presents for you is put in the trust fund instead.