Dies anybody remember my post about being potentially dismissed from work for not following policies and procedures I was unaware of?

[Charlieandthechocolatecake]

If you do, my disciplinary meeting is tomorrow morning. I have been informed anonymously that my job has been offered to somebody else.

As soon as I was made aware if this I emailed HR asking if I would be given the opportunity to resign before being dismissed.

I've heard nothing back yet.

My plan is to make my way to the hearing tomorrow but if I don't receive confirmation that I will be given this opportunity then I will send an email to HR explaining that I refuse to attend the meeting because my job has already been offered to somebody else.

Also, I opted out of the working times directive meaning I have regularly been working 50+ hours a week. There have been times when I have had no rest day at all for 4/5 weeks.

Also, I have been working 16 hours a day at the weekends from home with no rest break. I thought this was covered when I opted out of the WTD but I've just been made aware that I should still be entitled to breaks.

I don't wish to take this further but if I do decide to attend the meet8ng tomorrow morning would this information help my case in regards to resigning rather than being dismissed?
Thank you x

I work directly from home. Laptop and phone turn on at 7am and I finish at 11pm.

I'm rather concerned that you claim to have not know you are entitled to breaks. So you didn't realise something absolutely everybody who is employed does and that is the employers fault,in your eyes, aswell as something that you did that made a service user very ill? To me you've lost every ounce of credibility on that claim given your sudden mention of not knowing about breaks

Attend your disciplinary. Grow some balls and realise that someone has become very ill due to actions that, one way or another, could have been prevented. You and the company owe it to that person to get to the bottom of what happened and your disciplinary will be part of that. Even more important if the family (family not service user.. Is service user ok btw?) are indeed suing.

They can't refuse to accept your resignation, they sound bonkers. That's just not how it works.

I mean, someone says, I resign, companies can say, NO, you have to work for us indefinitely?

Erm nope. Weird.

I didn't see your original thread. Your company sounds v shonky - zero hours contracts, no T&C advising you of hours etc etc - and asking you to work 4 or 5 weeks without a day off nope nope nope they are dodgy and exploitative by the sounds of things

Thank you for your replies.

Trip, I opted out of the WTD. It was only recently that I realised I still had a right to breaks.

I'm not holding that against the company but I can see now how it has had affected me mentally.

The client is fine. But the situation could have potentially been a lot worse. I did not directly affect the clients health. The colleague involved lied to me about what was happening at the time. Had she been honest, I would have followed the procedure I am aware of and I wouldn't be in this position.

I can categorically say this is not my fault.

My disciplinary has been booked for a few weeks time so according to them I am still suspended.

If I have handed in my notice why won't they let me go?

The procedure has not been fair. The investigation notes sent to HR do not include information i gave at the time. People in the office have been gossiping. I don't want to go back. I don't need to.

Don't go back then what can they do sack you for quitting

I'm an HR Manager and they can't refuse to accept your immediate resignation. Employers can't lock people up to work their notice. It's ridiculous.

I'd make it crystal clear in writing that you resign with immediate effect as of today's date. Technically you are in breach of contract as you are not honouring the contractual notice period, but in reality there isn't much they are going to do about that

A lot of people are saying just walk away, OP, and I agree. They can't FORCE you in to work. Just don't come back, in reality what will they do?

Also Catgirl1976's posts sound very helpful.

What do you think? Have you read all the posts?

Good luck with it!

"Technically you are in breach of contract as you are not honouring the contractual notice period, "

I don't think you've even got a notice period have you, as you were on a zero hours contact and they didn't update it when they started you on these mega hours after presusumably implying that opting out of the working time directive was what they wanted you to do (most of my employers have hinted this as well when handing the form over, I don't know why, they have all been 9/5 jobs, whole thing is odd).

So just send them an email saying, I sent you an email handing in my notice at this time and on this date, I have no contarctual notice period to serve, therefore our employer / employee relationship is ceased (or similar - maybe someone else will have better words). And then ignore them.

Keep all yur records and notes of what has gone on, obv.

Would suggest writing everything down - keep a written record of everything. Would also suggest filing a grievance outlining issues including probs with rest breaks, lack of training, communication etc. This goes to the hr dept. I think this should halt any disciplinary until they have answered it. But if they are shady they may not follow. But it provides a record.
Legal advice is expensive and not always worthwhile. Solicitors I spoke to when having work probs just seem fixated on tribunal claims. Decks are so stacked in the employers favour. Legal aid has vanished. CAB are helpful and sadly are shouldering a massive burden for a society that does not value workers. They can help with grievance.
It’s easy to judge but what these care workers are expected to do with little support, training or pay is appalling.
I hope it works out for you with a better job. It’s a horrible experience and I know as a female how much we invest of ourselves in our jobs.

You can't resign, then 'whistle blow' (on spurious grounds) and then claim you were constructively dismissed as a result of your whistle blowing. The timeline is wrong!

No, but I'm not recommending the OP does try to claim constructive, just allude to it in a letter. Given this company doesn't seem to know they can't refuse her resignation it might put the wind up them enough to give her a neutral reference at least.

(At a push she could argue that she had made them aware of the lack of required rest breaks and then informed them of the lack of policy (which endangers the safety of clients) when the incident happened, SINCE which time they have begun this campaign of unreasonable behaviour towards her which has left her no choice to resign, but it would be shakey AF)

I've been quite clear that I don't think she should try to claim constructive, just mention / allude to the possibility of taking things further and bringing these issues to light and use that to try to negotiate some sort of settlement.

I’m a HR Business Partner for a care provider....you’ve been given some really bad advice on here. They can’t stop you resigning but what they can do is still hear the disciplinary despite the fact that you have left. It sounds like what you’ve done may be a safeguarding issue so your employer will have a legal duty to conclude the process even if you don’t participate. You may then be referred to the DBS for consideration of if you should go on the barred list to stop you working in care. Any reference would likely reflect that had you not resigned you would have been dismissed.

To clear up confusion, it sounds like the OP works in the office during the week, then is "on call" at the weekend, which involves running an emergency contact line for carers and clients. The on call line needs to be covered by staff at a very level, and if the office is short staffed it can mean being on call over several weekends. Some employers are very crafty with this as they have it written into the contract that you can go anywhere whilst on call, so they don't have to pay you. However due to confidentiality you really can't go anywhere, you'd be discussing personal matters etc.

That's not quite correct Jane.

A disciplinary sanction cannot be applied to a former employee and the OP has resigned with immediate effect and appears to have no notice period other than the statutory 1 week. Resigning saves the OP from going through the stress of the hearing which appears to be a foregone conclusion.

However, if it is gross misconduct and following investigation it is concluded that the OP would have been dismissed then this may supersede the resignation. This will only be an issue if the OP needs a reference from them (in which they will be obliged to raise any safeguarding / substantial disciplinary issues) which is why trying to negotiate and agreed, neutral reference is a potential option.

If the OP's conduct is found to be relevant conduct or satisfy the harm test a referral to DBS might be a possibility which will be an issue. A letter highlighting the legal failings of the employer and setting the scene for a protected conversation would be my recommendation in this case.

I've been quite clear that I don't think she should try to claim constructive, just mention / allude to the possibility of taking things further and bringing these issues to light and use that to try to negotiate some sort of settlement.

There is zero mileage in this. You can't negotiate a settlement agreement for something a) hasn't happened (you can't just make stuff up) and b) the employee has no legal claim for anyway. Employers are not stupid, they don't go around giving settlements for nothing. People with under two year's service would rarely get any sort of settlement for a misconduct issue - there is no hint of discrimination here.
Employers also take legal advice you know. (Often from people like me)
And why should they give her a neutral reference by the way? To be honest, they probably will do, but as a PP says, there may well be industry reasons that the reference has to say certain things - teaching and banking both have these sorts of requirements too.

The fact the OP didn't know that signing out of the 48 hour working week didn't mean she still got her rest breaks does not mean the employer is at fault. It would be nice to see the document she signed - I would bet anything it ONLY says you are signing out of the 48 hour cap.

All the OP wants to do is resign, which she has done. She now needs to write to them and say her resignation stands and she will not be returning from x date (and return any equipment). She should ask in her letter that she gets paid for accrued and unused holiday up to her last working day,. based on the hours she worked (i.e. not the zero hours contract!).

The hearing will go on, it's the employer's choice to do that, and she should ask for a copy of the outcome.

That is it.

but what is the OP being accused of.

Cat girl I never said a disciplinary sanction could be applied but if it is a safeguarding issue the employer has a duty to conclude the case (so would therefore hold a hearing despite the resignation) And would make a decision on what the outcome would have been. Most decent employers wouldn’t agree to a standard reference in this case as they would feel they have a duty of care to share that the person would have been dismissed had they not resigned to safeguard others.

Also to add it would be advisable to attend the hearing and put your case forward regardless of if you are leaving. It may be stressful but will be much more stress if you end up with a DBS referral

I think it's worth bearing in mind that a future reference stating gross misconduct is probably marginally preferable to one that states that a hearing was held in your absence and a decision of gross misconduct was reached. Because that indicates that you were not only in some way guilty of a breach of policy/procedure, but also, you weren't willing to deal with it.

You probably feel that's unfair, but I think that many employers would view it like that.

@birdladyfromhomealone

What they are accused of isn't relevant to what the op is asking on this thread.

Thank you again for your advice, it has all been taken on board.

I have decided to request a protected meeting/conversation with HR.

I feel as though this will give me an opportunity to express again the concerns I have had about my working conditions without it affecting the disciplinary.

If this is agreed I will attend the disciplinary and fight my corner.

Again, had the colleague involved not lied then I would not be in this position.

Regardless, as far as I am concerned I have resigned. There is simply no going back.

Regarding the DBS barring issue, this is a concern for me as this is the only industry I wish to work in.

I am hoping that if a meeting is agreed they will consider the conditions I have been working in and agree they they were unacceptable.

I rather suspected from your previous post that there had been a complaint on behalf of the client hence suspending you on full pay. Is CQC involved? It is likely the company are following procedure as set out by their insurance company.

What s the establishments rating with CQC, have you checked whether there were any outstanding issues at the last inspection?

I hope you have taken legal advice as you don't want to be unfairly blamed for an incident that occurred where you were unaware of the procedure that had to be followed. If possible you should have someone accompany you at the hearing.

How did you get on OP?

I remember your original thread OP. It's a shame you can't name the company so people can avoid applying for jobs with them. It sounds a right shitshow.