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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask for urgent legal advice?

50 replies

worriedLL · 10/11/2018 19:14

Posting here for traffic as legal board is slow and I am in a complete panic and cannot phone CAB or such until Monday.

DH inherited a commercial property 2 years ago which was empty at the time but he let it out to a local hairdresser, contract drawn up (by him) stating X rent every month, she was responsible for gas/electric/rates. This is in another town so DH used to go every 3 months to collect rent from her and mostly things were fine. Three months ago DH called in with her to get rent, she was busy with a customer and DH asked her to message him to say when was a suitable time. He heard nothing, messaged her, no response. DH was admitted to hospital with cardiac issues and left the issue.

The past 2 weeks DH has been messaging/phoning her and no response. Today she texted to say she has been out of business for months, if DH had have called her he would have known Hmm and that she has left the keys with the neighbouring property. She is not intending to pay the last 6 months clearly as she ended to message with 'all the best for the future'.

I had a nosy on her FB page and she has moved to a new premises (under the same name). From her posts it is obvious that she has been working all of the time, so certainly has not 'gone out of business'. I am terrified that she has not paid the rates bill for the best part of (at least) 6 months and we may now be responsible for this.

What should we do? DH has not replied yet as he wants to take legal advice. I have screenshotted her posts proving that she has moved and has been working all along. I am petrified about the rates bill as if she hasn't paid it the I'm worried that we will have to?

Can we take her to Small Claims to ensure that all of her bills are paid?

Any advice welcome. We really cannot afford any legal fees atm.

OP posts:
YeOldeTrout · 10/11/2018 19:16

Could you sell the property to pay any fees?

MemoryOfSleep · 10/11/2018 19:21

Under the contract it should say what constitutes notice and how much notice needs to be given. If she's not followed that then she's still liable.

Original poster
worriedLL · 10/11/2018 19:23

In theory yes, but the market is very slow so would not be any time soon. I'm really upset that she has taken advantage in this way though, so I do want to recover the money she owes from her. In the past she said she wasn't able to pay on time and Dh was fine with this, gave her extra months and did not take a deposit from her as she said she couldn't afford it. He also paid half of electric installation and boiler upgrade even though it was her responsibility. He has been very fair and understanding which hurts even more.

He does eventually want to sell the property, he was not expecting to be inheriting it and it has been so much hassle as he does not have any LL experience. The market in the area is very slow atm so for now it isn't really an option.

OP posts:
Original poster
worriedLL · 10/11/2018 19:24

Memory it was supposed to be a one month notice period.

OP posts:
Racecardriver · 10/11/2018 19:26

Your DH is doing the right thing. You will have to peruse her. If she refuses to pay up you will have to sue. Make sure you get a decent solicitor. Go to a nationwide firm. Don’t use a high street firm unless a particular solicitor comes reccomended (you would be surprised how ignorant of the law most solicitors are). Where abouts are you? If you don’t already have solicitor I would suggest asking for reccomendations from people you. If you can fibd anyone that way then start asking for bad experiences online so you can start ruling firms out. The key thing to bare in mind with law is that you will get what you pay for.

mummmy2017 · 10/11/2018 19:27

If she has no proof of sending you a leaving notice, right now she could still be liable for it all.

Gaspodethetalkingdog · 10/11/2018 19:28

Husband drew up the contract - oh dear - is it legally binding?

Celebelly · 10/11/2018 19:32

I don't think anyone here will be able to help very much without seeing the contract. Has your husband done everything by the book that he needs to in renting out a commercial property?

I think you'll need to get someone to look at the contract and advise what remedies you can take.

mummmy2017 · 10/11/2018 19:32

Send her a letter stating you have not received notice of her leaving the property.
And can she please inform you how she did this.
Also inform her you are giving her notice as of this month.
So she will be responsible for all bills until the end of 2018.
Send an invoice.. For rent.
Then inform council you are paying rates as of this date...

Send it recorded delivery, and make sure you send your address..
If she is as stupid as I think she is she will incriminate herself in the rant letter you get back...

MrsPatmore · 10/11/2018 19:33

You will have to tread carefully. When you give out a contract you have certain obligations as a landlord. I'm not sure what these are for commercial premises but for private, for example you have to give the latest how to rent booklet, protect the deposit legally (otherwise a court will take you to the cleaners), give an EPC, a gas safety certificate etc. If any of these are not in place, the renter can refuse to go/not pay etc and you will have to take legal steps. Do you have the adequate insurance to rent it out as a commercial premise to a hairdresser (higher risk fire wise). It sounds like things may have been a bit ad hoc with this arrangement so I would cough up and chalk it up to experience. If you take her to Court and she contests the claim, you will need to prove you have a water tight contract. The National Landlords Association run courses all over the country on how to rent property.

gallicghoul · 10/11/2018 19:33

Your husband won't be responsible for business rates if the tenant hasn't paid. The landlord only becomes responsible from the date the tenancy ends. However if the tenant vacated before the end date of the tenancy, they can have the benefit of the three months exemption.

Xenia · 10/11/2018 19:36

It will all hinge on this contract. The starting point for any lawyer is who exactly is named as the party to the contract eg is it Mrs Jane Anne Smith or is it Mrs J A Smith trading as Tiffany Hair or is it Jane Smith Ltd company number 1234 a UK registered company reigstered at companies house, registered office address XZY. This is the most important first issue to check. If it ia limited company go on the companies house register tonight (it is free of charge) and look up the company and check if it is in administration. These are your first steps.

Original poster
worriedLL · 10/11/2018 19:37

Is it possible to go through small claims court or does it need to go through solicitor? The amount in rent is approx £2500 but obviously if she hasn't paid rates/utilities it will be a lot more.

Re the contract being legally binding or not, I have no idea. DH took it off an online template, which she signed and as did her partner who was acting as guarantor. This was all new to DH and he felt it unnecessary to go through EA. If she was genuinely 'bust' I would feel sorry for her and chalk it up, but the fact that she seems to have a thriving business elsewhere has really annoyed me.

OP posts:
Original poster
worriedLL · 10/11/2018 19:45

These responses are very helpful, thankyou.
Xenia on the contract it states her name as she didn't have a business name at that ti me. I've already done a CH check and cannot find anything under her name o r the actual business name. This was her first time going alone so I don't think she had much of a clue either. I know she received a government start-up loan/grant to get started.

OP posts:
Original poster
worriedLL · 10/11/2018 19:47

Just remembered that DH didn't charge any rent the first 3 months either to 'let her get on her feet'. I'm really angry with both of them now.

OP posts:
eurochick · 10/11/2018 19:57

A rent free period is fairly standard in commercial leases.

Was the lease drawn up by a lawyer?

lifecouldbeadream · 10/11/2018 20:00

It’s quite normal to give a grace period at the start of a tenancy for a new business, so don’t be too hard on him OP. If she’s not rented before, she may not realise that she is liable. I’d be writing to her pointing out her personal liability....... and explaining that if you have to appoint legal representatives her costs will increase.....

Tarrarra · 10/11/2018 20:04

Commercial leases are usually watertight, stating term of lease, when rent is due, how often rent can be reviewed, any rent free period for fitting out, what should happen at end of lease, if rent is not paid on time, tenants obligations and responsibilities, whether it is a fully repairing and insuring lease and what responsibilities the landlord has. They usually are quite clear on rent payments and frequency and obligations at the end of the lease. Without seeing this lease that dh has drawn up in not sure that anyone can really give any useful advice. I really would contact a commercial property solicitor.... I worked in commercial property for many years and leases are all different.

PersonaNonGarter · 10/11/2018 20:05

Is the contract with her personally or with a ‘limited’ company?

Tell us more about her - does she have money/property herself?

Jimdandy · 10/11/2018 20:07

CAB won’t be able to help as it’s for consumers, not for businesses. The expectation is that businesses pay their own costs.

Villanellesproudmum · 10/11/2018 20:09

So she owes you rent and dilapidations? My battery is about to go, did you take a deposit? It all depends what is said in the lease, average commercial lease is 40 pages.

Jimdandy · 10/11/2018 20:09

@tarrara

I’d say more commercial lit rather than comm property 😊

MissBartlettsconscience · 10/11/2018 20:12

As has been said, it will really depend on the terms of the lease. I'd strongly suggest getting a solicitor to look over it before going to the small claims court, because if there are problems with the lease it's better to be told earlier rather than incurring costs in bringing a claim which is thrown out.

Original poster
worriedLL · 10/11/2018 20:14

Persona contract with her personally. No idea about how much money she has but I can see from FB that she has been abroad 3 times this year, so probably not that skint!

OP posts:
LegoPiecesEverywhere · 10/11/2018 20:16

If her partner was guarantor and she won’t/can’t pay he would be liable.