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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To complain to the bus company

34 replies

Buswankeress · 10/11/2018 13:06

I am a regular traveler on bus services and so is my daughter, she is 15 and travels with me sometimes or alone. As I travel more regularly I have a pass and my daughter pays cash journey by journey.
She is regularly challenged by drivers regarding age, which of course I am not complaining about, because I realise that drivers do need to challenge those they think are not half fare. What I am complaining about is the attitude towards my daughter, and myself when she is challenged. Today's journey has been the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

My daughter was in front of me and asked the driver for a half. He asked how old she was, she replied 15 (which she is) to which he snorted, shook his head and commented that "15 year olds don't look like that" - (Exactly how should a 15 year old look?!) so, I intervened and also said she's 15, and that I am her mum, to be told again that he has a 15 year old himself, and that "15 year olds don't look like that" and he was rude and dismissive about it.

More baffling is that he did give her the half fare! If he believed so strongly that she wasn't half fare, to be rude about it, roll his eyes and state that a 15 year old doesn't look like that, then why give the half fare?

I am extremely annoyed about the '15 year olds don't look like that' everyone looks different, she was wearing jeans and a sweater and no make up, she's tall, but then so am I and yes, she has a curvy figure, but she's 15 and supposed to be developing - just because she looks differently to this bus drivers 15 year old means she's lying?

He is not the only driver that has been quite frankly rude about this issue. One a few months ago didn't even ask her age, huffed at her, shook his head and then laughed to me thinking I was another passenger - I asked if there was a problem, he replied no, So why the appalling attitude? He didn't have an answer.

Although I realise that drivers need to challenge those they think are taking advantage of the half fare rule, this attitude that is coming from a minority of drivers is shocking, we are customers, regular customers and we do not deserve to be treated like this. She IS 15 and we are not trying to do anything wrong.

Further to this, trying to prove that she is indeed 15 and entitled to half fare by your own rules, my daughter started carrying her school travel pass. This is to travel on the school bus only between home and school, and holds her photograph and the year it is valid for, council logo and the school logo - obviously the current one holds a date valid until July 2019, and as she is issued one because she attends school. I thought that this would prove that she indeed is entitled to half fare as she has the pass. Having been challenged by a driver and then showing her pass, she was told (and I quote) "That's no use to me is it? You can't travel on it" - she wasn't trying to travel on it, she was showing SCHOOL ID to prove she is school age and therefore entitled to half fare. Got the journey for half fare but still had to deal with the poor attitude from the driver.
Carrying a passport is not an option, and I don't see why I need to pay up to £50 for an ID card - I may do if I thought the drivers attitude would be any different, but it seems to be 15 and look a year or 2 older - even carrying school ID, condemns you to being treated badly.

So I can't see her being treated any differently even showing an ID card, because a minority of the drivers seem to have already decided she is doing something wrong and utterly resent being proven that she isn't.
My job entails asking for proof of age, in fact it is a legal requirement, yet I wouldn't dream of treating customers this way, it's very poor customer service, there's no need to sneer and be rude about it.

So I have emailed the bus company with the above because tbh I'm sick of the the attitude she's getting, she's asked her age and when she replies is sneered at - shows ID to be sneered at....... Why is there any need to be like that, she's getting to the point where she doesn't want to travel on buses now because of this and I can't say I blame her, but she doesn't have much choice because I don't drive, it's making travelling miserable and I think I'd feel the same if it was happening to me all the time!

OP posts:

humblesims · 10/11/2018 13:20

YADNBU but...she can get ID for £15
www.citizencard.com/

Sirzy · 10/11/2018 13:24

If the half fair is only for 15 and under a school bus pass won’t work because a 16 year old could have one.

If you know it’s an issue then you need to get her valid id she can carry with her DOB on.

People do take the piss with these things so I think it’s hnfair to expect bus drivers to just take the word for it

Racecardriver · 10/11/2018 13:29

I think you are overreacting slightly. You should have either challenged him then and there asking him to explain himself or report him for being rude and forget about it. I don’t understand why you are so worked up about it.

Original poster

Buswankeress · 10/11/2018 13:29

It's 16 and under, and yes people do take the piss and I'm not expecting the bus driver to take anyone's word for it, she won't have the pass when she leaves school - at 16. Some drivers (the polite ones who challenge her age) say oh fine to the school ID, some don't even ask her- just the sneering and eye rolling.
It's the attitude I object to. Ask by all means but don't be an arsehole about it.

OP posts:

Original poster

Buswankeress · 10/11/2018 13:33

I'm getting worked up because traveling on buses is unavoidable, yet it's making it a misery for DD, and as we're not doing anything wrong I don't think that's right. I don't think the drivers should be treating people like this.
I ID challenge a lot, but I treat people with respect and not disdain.

OP posts:

pearlydewdropsdrops · 10/11/2018 13:38

YANBU some of the bus drivers around here have shocking attitudes and are downright intimidating, yelling at passengers who ask the fare or which stop to get off at, driving off fast before elderly passengers or people with young children have a chance to sit down so they fall over, my colleague got sworn at when she needed to use the wheelchair ramp to get on / off the bus. I spend a few weeks a year working in another town and they are never like that there, they're really helpful and friendly.

If you worked in an office or shop and treated your customers like that you'd be out of a job in no time. Definitely complain.

CandyCreeper · 10/11/2018 13:43

i dont see a problem.

GemmeFatale · 10/11/2018 13:45

I think ‘15 year olds don’t look like that’ is interesting. It implies they consider your 15 year old child sexually attractive and that’s part of why your daughter is so embarrassed and you’re so protective/upset. ‘15 year olds aren’t that tall’ or simply ‘you look a bit older than 15 do you have an ID?’ just don’t have the same predatory vibe.

Alfie190 · 10/11/2018 13:45

There is an easy solution, it is just that you are not willing to take it and instead are getting yourself worked up. Sometimes teenage children need to get something to prove their age, has always been that way.

BertrandRussell · 10/11/2018 13:51

My older looking dd carried a photocopy of her passport ( shrunk and laminated) to solve this very problem.

LuluBellaBlue · 10/11/2018 13:51

This ^^
I’d complain too tbh

Original poster

Buswankeress · 10/11/2018 13:53

@humblesims

Thank you, that's been really helpful to get the ball rolling.

OP posts:

FullMetalRabbit · 10/11/2018 13:55

my DS has the opposite problem - can't get into 15 films - the cinema suggested he carried a photo of his passport on his phone - he does that now

abbsisspartacus · 10/11/2018 13:55

In my area the half fare rules are in place while your in education so up to 18 with id

Original poster

Buswankeress · 10/11/2018 13:59

Yes, I think it's the 15 year olds don't look like that that has really upset both of us this time. As I said at the time, how is a 15 year old meant to look? And because she doesn't look how a bus driver says she should then she's lying?
And yes there's a simple solution, she carried it, she's not carrying a passport at £50 a go, and a copy isn't good enough apparently. Regardless of how we prove her age it's the attitude she's being met with - not even asked by some but just sneered at when asking for her fare - why should anyone put up with that?

OP posts:

PawPawNoodle · 10/11/2018 14:15

I don't really see what your problem is regarding having to prove her age, it's a reasonable expectation for them to expect an official proof of ID. Bus drivers don't know the age ranges of schools (nor should they be required to) for all they know her school has an attached sixth form with 18 year olds. She needs an ID to prove she is 16 or under and you will just need to get her one or have her pay full price.

I'm 28 but look under 18 if Im make up free. I know I will get IDed if I go to buy a bottle of wine so I take my driving licence with me. I wouldn't take my work ID or a business card with my name on and expect the cashier to know that my employer doesn't hire anyone under 18, and therefore I must be of age.

Original poster

Buswankeress · 10/11/2018 15:02

I don't have a problem with her being challenged over her age, I have an issue with her being sneered at, and the attitude of the drivers.
Wonder how you'd react if you went to buy your bottle of wine and were told that "28 year olds don't look like that" and Im"I have a 28 year old and they don't look like you!" had eyes rolled at you and head shaken at you. You'd feel that was acceptable would you?

OP posts:

BertrandRussell · 10/11/2018 15:07

The desired outcome is for your dd to travel without being challenged. So get her an ID card, and tell her to show it as she asks for her ticket. Problem solved.

ginghamstarfish · 10/11/2018 15:35

I can see that it's hard for bus drivers etc to assess the age of some teenagers when not in school uniform. Maybe they should have to show a pass as a matter of routine? It's not fair to put the onus on the driver to decide!

CandyCreeper · 10/11/2018 15:39

that wouldn't bother me when buying alcohol. ive had all sorts of weird comments when buying alcohol. mentioning that im 29 and have 4 kids with me i got told you can be 15 and have 4 kids . think your being abit sensitive tbh.

PawPawNoodle · 10/11/2018 16:41

Same as Candycreeper, it doesn't bother me to get comments because it's not exactly meant to make you feel horrible it's just disbelief. I've had cashiers still look at me with troubled eyes even after handing over my licence as they still don't really believe me.

These people are tasked with challenging a person's age (sometimes at risk of disciplinary action if they don't do it correctly) and no doubt get many people attempting to deceive them without any proof so I can imagine it must get tiresome for them to have the same sorts of arguments with teens that have no ID.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 10/11/2018 16:52

YANBU. There are a small minority of bus drivers whose sole purpose seems to be being a complete twat to the passengers. It’s not about checking her age, it’s the way it’s done.

Plenty of bus drivers do manage to check tickets without being a total arse.

Original poster

Buswankeress · 10/11/2018 17:00

Maybe I am being unreasonable regarding the school pass, but I did genuinely think as it's a school pass, valid for this year with a photo on it, that would be enough to prove she's allowed a half fare. I've looked into the citizen card - £15 is reasonable for this, I certainly am not willing for her to carry a passport everywhere.
But it won't solve the problem of the attitude when challenged though, you get on and ask for your fare to wherever, because she looks older she gets attitude straight away because they don't believe her. We tried showing the ID at the same time - She showed her school pass as she asked for her ticket (with money in her hand) - which the driver accepted was adequate proof of her fare - but had a go because he thought she was trying to travel on it, which she wasn't . Another driver said it wasn't good enough proof - only a passport, not a copy.
While I fully agree that they need to challenge, the attitude is appalling, without even asking at some points. Or if she's asked her age, and replies with her actual age, she's laughed at - if they're not going to accept the age without ID then why even ask?
I agree it's not fair on the driver to put that on them, but it's not fair on the customers doing nothing wrong either. They need a clear policy of what is acceptable rather than it being the pot luck of which driver you get.
Maybe I am being a bit sensitive, but I really don't think someone asking for something they're allowed to have by the companies own rules needs to be laughed at, eyes rolled at and told that '15 year olds don't look like that' - clearly they do because she's actually 15 (only by 2 months as well) and looks like that. It makes her feel awkward, the driver is an adult and she's brought up to respect others, but she also knows she's doing nothing wrong, so stands there being 'told off' and made out to be doing something underhand when she's not - in front of a bus full of people. If that happened to me I'd feel awkward and embarrassed too.

OP posts:

CurcubitaPepo · 10/11/2018 17:02

Yonks ago when I was your daughters age all the kids had a “half fare pass” which I think cost £1 and proved your entitlement to half fare. I take it they don’t do these things these days??

Original poster

Buswankeress · 10/11/2018 17:09

I have no problems with her being challenged, it's about the way she's challenged. She asks for the fare and has head shaken at her, laughed at and eyes rolled - clearly because they think she's trying to pull the wool. She doesn't have the opportunity to show the ID until she's asked, so has to deal with that first.
It's not disbelief in the way you mean, I have been in that situation and a polite "Do you have any ID please?" And then "Thank you" or "Sorry, no ID no sale" is fine, were I to laugh and roll my eyes at someone who appeared under age and asked for an alcoholic drink, then ask their age, snort in disbelief when told, tell the person I know someone the same age and they don't look like that, and then serve them anyway, that'd have only one purpose - to embarrass and show up the customer. There's no need.

OP posts:

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