to be uncomfortable with young children learning about war?

[CleanTheFeckingMicrowave]

I have a Masters degree in History and I am a bit of a history buff, so I'll put that out to start with.

DC's school has been doing a lot of work on WW1, including the Reception and Y1 children. On one hand, I think it is a big cultural moment, but I don't find the slaughter of millions of people is appropriate for such young children.

This was glossed over in school, to be fair, but the result has been a very Disney-fied version of war. We shouldn't forget or dismiss the horrendous human cost of it.

Does that rambling make sense to anyone else?

I don’t agree with you at all OP. DD in reception said they had a special day at school remembering the soldiers who died in the war,, and who were fighting for our country. I’m don’t see how that’s inappropriate at all. She can learn more details as she gets older. That’s how the majority of subjects are taught.

But isn't it better they get told the truth, in an age appropriate way, by a teacher so children who might otherwise come from backgrounds who's parents might either mess it up or ignore it?
I think I'm handling it correctly, but I also know that 4yos tend to reassemble stories in their head (DS was telling me the story of Diwali, and I'm pretty sure the circus cannons were not part of the unit his teacher ran) so I can imagine the Chinese whisper effect in the playground leading to some very strange garbled knowledge....

I don't live in Germany, but I do live in a country with a rather recent sad and traumatic past. We have had not exactly a holocaust, but something similar although on a much smaller scale.
There was a war not too long ago that my family members fled from. Within living memory, friends, family and neighbours were betraying and killing each other. The physical memory of that is around us all the time here.
My DC have been brought up with the memory and the actuality, at home at school, since a very young age, and I honestly believe it has made them, not "better" people, but possibly a little wiser and more aware.
Through my job I have at times been called to recently discovered common war graves, and I have always been honest with my DC even from a very young age about what that means. They and their friends have relatives their grandparents age who simply disappeared and have not yet been found.
Maybe it's because I live in a part of the world where all this happened a relatively short while ago, but I do think it's important not to shield children, even young children, from this.

How are we supposed to learn not to repeat history, if we don’t know about it? Don’t be so ridiculous.

I should have read properly. Yeah they need to know the details... glossing over is no good

YABU. It is really important to try and impress on kids the realities of war, how horrific it is and how many people die. The Peace Pledge Union and the Quakers both have excellent resources for all ages.

Depending on what they learn in school you may also need to point out that all lives matter, not just British and Commonwealth military ones...

I felt equally uncomfortable about dd having to write about the crucifixion when she was five. Most children have their own way of processing things like war and hopefully as long as the more graphic and traumatic details are left out, it shouldn't upset the majority of them. I'm always quite shocked at how cruel young children are to each other so maybe it's naive to think they can't handle these things.

My ds is in Yr2 and has been learning about WW1 this week. I’d be more upset if he hadn’t been learning about it. From what he’s said it sounds as if they’ve told him that lots and lots of boys and men died because they thought it would be fun to go to war. That it was very evenly matched and there weren’t goodies and baddies, it was just for no reason. That for years afterwards there were hardly any men left in lots of towns and that it was pretty pointless and war is always bad. That’s what I can get her from what he’s said and written anyway.

To me that seems perfectly appropriate. If they had been learning exactly how people died and reading graphic descriptions of the horrors I’d feel differently.

"Lest we forget".

You can teach the principles the war was fought on without terrorising young children. At that age, I taught my DD2 about WW2, when she asked, very simply. I said that Hitler had decided that he wanted to take power over some areas, and they were weak, and he was strong, so they couldn't stop him. We told him to stop being a bully, and he said that he thought he was right. Then he said he wanted to take over somewhere else. We said "That's it. If you step one foot inside Poland, it will be war!" because Poland were too weak to defend themselves, and we needed to stand up for them. Hitler didn't listen, and said "I'm having Poland, too!" So we said "That's it, Hitler, we're at war with you." Every country had to decide whether they would fight with Germany, against it, or stay out of the war.

From that, we discussed how sometimes you have to do things that aren't brilliant for you to help a friend/someone who isn't as strong as you.

I don't get what you object to - war being taught, or being taught a Disney version?

In any case I think you're being ridiculous. My son made a poppy picture today at school to remember the dead, he's 6 and understands. My daughters Brownie troop is laying a wreath at our local monument on Sunday and she gets it.

What's wrong with them understanding historical human facts presented appropriately? Clearly they're not sitting in Primary One watching Schindler's List.

I felt equally uncomfortable about dd having to write about the crucifixion when she was five

Yes, it's a bit like my feelings on that. My Dad had very strong opinions on why he would not wear a poppy so I guess that's coming into play too.

What's wrong with them understanding historical human facts presented appropriately?

Because I think in the effort to make them appropriate, the facts get diluted into something that doesn't really educate about the war. My son could have been painting a squirrel or a poppy for he really understands.

So you don’t agree with children under Y5 (9 -10 year olds) learning about the war.

You can’t wrap the snowflake up forever.

My mum and dad were both children in the war and saw first hand the devastation war brings. Why can’t kids learn about it? Learn about how lucky they are? Or do we just wrap them up and hope they won’t take notice?

Yanbu I hate it. I don't see the value in giving little children nightmares out of principle

Just because something is upsetting to hear doesn't make it harmful.
I've met adults who were wrapped in cotton wool as children and they seem immature. They get intensely upset about pretty small things and people walk on eggshells around them as a result.
I think children need to see us managing things that are negative, and learn to process it.

I think parents have a duty to answer questions as honestly as possible (and have the benefit of knowing their child better than anyone, so can answer in the most appropriate terms).

I also think that's different to a Reception or Y1 'project' on WW1. I seem to be in the minority though :)

War is very recent in many places. In the UK we tend to get obsessed with "our" wars. Not so far away, even as close as Europe, there are very recent conflicts that we can't shy away from. Where I am we are as upfront as possible, within reason. That way maybe it won't happen again.

I think in primary education facts get diluted all the time. We learn so many things in history, geography and science that aren't really the whole story.

The Peter Jackson film, "They shall not grow old" is going to be shown on tv on Remembrance Day. It is utterly gut wrenching and will be of interest to older children/teens but really should carry a warnings due to graphic content of bloated, rat gnawed corpses it is not suitable for younger DCs. Seriously!
it shows it as it was and doesn't flinch from the gross reality, but youngsters will find it very disturbing. I was surprised it didn't carry a warning when I saw it at the cinema

My Grandad was in WW1 and my Dad in WW2
Grandad met and married a French girl from the Somme
As a child from a very young age we visited family in France and also cemeteries museums and memorials
I did the same with my D.C.
As long as you explain things in an age appropriate way I don’t see the problem

I think the whole story of the war IS the rat gnawed corpses, the sheer and utter waste of young life. That's what shouldn't be forgotten.

(for me)

I'm baffled! So you do want them to learn about war, but not in too glossy a way, and not in too vivid a way? Is there some magical Goldilocks level of details that would be just right?

I suppose so- I'm not known for being coherent on a Friday night!

I think it is so important to learn the truth about the war, which is to me closely bound up with the horrific waste of life. That's why I think it should only be taught at school at a much older age.

I agree with you. My child came home from nursery today with a picture of a poppy that he'd been assisted to paint. He doesn't have the first idea about war/poppies and it seemed incongruous and bizarre.

sorry, perhaps didn't express that well ( and i work for MoD and am with Veterans daily, some of them very badly injured so understand the realities of war better than many).
am not at all for sanitising it. but it should be, as others have said, age appropriate. This fabulous, amazing film is not suitable for very young children, but fine for showing the reality of war to older ones.
I'm just saying that things like War Horse, When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit, The boy in the Striped Pyjamas, Private Peaceful etc etc are perhaps better educational resources than this film for younger ones.
It is of course, your call.
I wouldnt show a very sexually explicit film to very young children either - there is a way of doing things which is age suitable.
Anyway, am selling Poppies tomorrow and laying a wreath on Sunday at both of which I will be talking to youngsters about WW1 in what I hope is an appropriate way. Lest we forget

I'm just saying that things like War Horse, When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit, The boy in the Striped Pyjamas, Private Peaceful etc etc are perhaps better educational resources than this film for younger ones.

I'm familiar with all of these (apart from War Horse) and think they are very good introductions to the concept of war.

I wouldn't put the Cbeebies short film about the rabbit in the field in the same category as them.