To wonder if I actually have a chance of winning my PIP tribunal ? Feeling deflated.

[BelatedDeflated]

My PIP tribunal is coming up soon and I’m starting to become nervous and deflated about it all

I’ve waited almost a year .

I had been receiving the enhanced rate of care but it was removed at review (a whole year early ) , in spite of there being no changes (in fact I was worse).

I missed out on any award at all (again) by two points.

I have M.E/CFS and it’s such a difficult condition to “prove” . I submitted lots of evidence but still it was removed .

We really relied on the money

I don’t know if I can face it . I’m so angry about the whole process and how they’ve completely ignored medical evidence in favour of a basic report from a “disability analyst” who has no clue what my condition is like .

I was refused it the first time around but won at an appeal and was awarded enhanced care .

The thought of going again , although the tribunal panel were very nice , is just so nerve wracking .

Do I have a reasonable chance of winning if I’ve had it before ?

Daisysstew I’ve never thought of it that way !

Yy I’ve given them all the evidence that I can, it makes sense that they should be disproving it .

Did you win on that argument ?

We did. That was the best advice I found online and it was from someone (anonymously of course) who worked for DWP. Because you’ve been previously awarded it you’ve already shown proof that you meet the criteria, it’s now for them to show what evidence they have to back up their claim that you have since improved.

Is that something I can bring up at the tribunal ?

Just because you can drive doesn’t mean you can’t havfe mobility problems or drive now
I bet the assessor asked you do you drive and you replied yes
Because you can drive, but you may not have driven for several years or even have a car
But because you said you can drive they assume you do so regularly so this means you can plan stuff , no anxiety or stress good dextirty wth your hands and your able to co-ordinate your body
Your also able to sit in one position for a certain amount of time
No mental health problems because you can obviously go out in your car on your own

You should have a chance to query how the DWP came to their decision. There’s a link here with some advice about the actual tribunal.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/your-hearing/

irunlikeahighpoo you’re spot on for what the assessment report says ...

I did tell them the full reasons why I can’t do something but they didn’t record my full answers and just finalised the report with “she can drive” - shows cognitive function, no mental health problems etc as you have posted .

What I’m trying to argue (as is the course of my illness) is that I can’t do the descriptors repeatedly and reliably because I’m too exhausted and in pain throughout the day.

Thank you for the links . I’ll ask DH to take a look at them.

Good luck op xxxxx

@DaisysStew that's only if there's a DWP rep which is unusual

Citizens advice is good. Also there is fibro warriors on fb with a good benefits sub group. Many members are cfs/me sufferers.
Agree with other poster, it should be down to them to prove you have improved since last time. Driving yourself is not proof of lack of disability.

Definitely go OP!

My mother had also been waiting a year since she had hers stopped.

She was receiving full rate for daily living and mobility, at her review last year they scored her 4 points for daily living and 0 for mobility but at the appeal 3 weeks ago she got awarded enough points to receive enhanced rate for both!

It is stressful but if you don't go you pretty much have no chance of getting it. I don't know how your condition affects you but that is basically what it is about, they don't care if your doctor says you have such and such it's how these conditions affect you in your daily life.

It's a shame you haven't been able to access the CAB as this really helped in my mums case although she wasn't able to get a representative from them they did write a lengthy submission detailing where she should of scored points.
I will try and find some links for you.

www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

It may also be helpful for your husband/friends/family to write you a statement to submit to the panel. I wrote one for my mum as I couldn't attend the tribunal due to being out of the country.
They do actually read it as the judge mentioned it at the tribunal.

Please don't get CAB to write anything for you. We see the same one again and again with slight alterations.

You can win. If you can contact charities for your disability for support, sometimes they can support at tribunal. Anything from your go or other medical professional that talks about how your condition affects you will be relevant evidence.

I recently had a client go through her assessment and be awarded zero points, where previously she had higher level support. At tribunal it was returned with back pay.

The odds are in your favour. An incredibly high number of PIP and ESA rejections are reinstated at tribunal.

Really Quiet?
The one they did for my mum was fab and the panel said that the submission was the main reason for their decision. We did spend a lot of time with the CAB though going through the appeal paperwork.

CAB (in this area) wins lots of appeals though so whatever they are writing clearly works.
Part of the assessment should detail with what regularity you can achieve the descriptors.
So if on average you are not mobile and pain free enough to make your lunch on 4 days out of every 7 then this should be written in.
CAB also offers email and phone advice lines. Have you tried them?

The key is to remember that they know nothing about you except what’s on the forms etc, and will assume everything. The driving thing for example, If you can’t drive at the moment due to your health make sure to reiterate this, and that you need to attend more appointments (sorry if that’s really presumptuous) and need support getting there. Do you have any medical professionals you have regular contact with? They wrote a supporting letter for a friend which took some of the stress off of them.

"Please don't get CAB to write anything for you. We see the same one again and again with slight alterations."

Your local office must not be great. But they are not all the same - most are good. I work for Citizens Advice and our benefits specialists (who work on appeals) are excellent.

I would have to check the figure but off the top of my head I think the latest PIP appeal success rate is 70%.

Based on what you've said OP (medical evidence, condition worse not better since previous award) I think you will probably win.

Best of luck!

I work all over London & sit in 5 different tribunal courts. The CAB letters are always the same. And they tell us what points you think you should be awarded. That's fine. But often they're the same if not similar.

Well do the claimants win their appeals or not?

Maybe the CAB letters are a copy and paste job but if they are sufficient that's all that matters isn't it?

I suspect the letter has some weight but not much compared to the medical weight. I'm not a benefits specialist though, I do MR requests but hand over for appeal. I don't envy my colleagues as they spend hours on each one.

CABs are charities with limited resources.

medical evidence

Well this is interesting as just the same thing has happened for me- had enhanced care from tribunal and now they have taken it and given me 6 points also. I won last time with a paper appeal and doing that again.

As I understand the thing about them having to prove you have changed is due to the way they have to show something called a change in circumstances or 'supersession' of the previous award. Which is due to them having the burden of proof as they are trying to take it away (different from when you first apply and the onus is on you to prove your claim)

Anyway, I am at MR stage now. Mine sounds similar, I don't drive but they are saying as I sometimes go swimming and seem cognitively 'adequate' (!) in their interview, despite evidence they are removing it. But they knew that from the start, when they first awarded me they recorded I went swimming then.

I wonder if it is an idea to write to them asking their ground and that the things applied in the first place, referring them to the original form / details? I haven't done that, yet.

I think it is meant to be, about what you can co reliably and on the majority of days, too so if you can only drive occasionally, perhaps you could argue that as well.

Here is a CAB MR tool online which I used, not sure of the same as they used in their offices though.

www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool

The key thing for you OP will be to say why you cannot do the activities SAFELEY; within a reasonable TIME; to an ACCEPTABLE standard; and REPEATEDLY. (STAR)
Assessors will say, for example, that you can cut and peel a carrot; but does that mean you can prepare a meal using STAR criteria?

The law around taking into account previous decisions is complex and depends in part on whether your previous decision was superseded (ie ended earlier than the original planned end date and superseded/replaced by the new decision)or took effect from the date after the previous award was due to end (renewal).
If a supersession then has the dwp showed why they have adequate medical evidence to supercede during the award (unlikely, and the new disability assessment isn’t necessarily enough). Also if a Tribunal decided your previous award and the dwp superseded that decision then they are acting unlawfully and the new tribunal must reinstate it.
If this award is a renewal and not a supersession then evidence regarding the previous award can be considered/persuasive.
Tribunals are generally aware that assessment reports are weighted against the claimant.

Sorry OP I just reread your thread. It sounds like a) the original award was made by a trib and B) the DWP has ended it early (supersession). As I understand it then you should be entitled to reinstatement because the dwp lacked power to end it early. But please don’t take my word for it - try and get specialist advice ASAP. Some councils offer a welfare rights service, as well as cabs. But advice/expertise does vary not just across agencies but across advisors.