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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this company is breaking the law somehow?

99 replies

Hocusypocus · 09/11/2018 10:14

DP is in a supervisory role at a fairly well known High Street company and is charge of the team on nights. He's been there for three years and more often than not he will be underpaid at the end of the month, sometimes it is just any overtime that's missing but sometimes it's several entire night shifts worth of pay.

This morning he's having to deal with an angry bunch of staff members (the night team he supervises) who've mostly all been underpaid, again, some by several hundred pounds.

He doesn't deal with pay roll, that's not in his remit. He's also missing just over £100.

When this happens, which is often, he takes it up with the store manager who simply says it must have been a mistake and whatever is owed will be added onto the next month's wages. 'if' it is paid back then the staff then find themselves paying more tax the following month because they are essentially paid more, even though its what they are owed.

Store manager claims nothing can be done at the point of the incorrect wages being paid and they have no choice to wait until the next pay. The missing wages is not always returned, at one point DP was waiting several months to be reimbursed for a period of work he was underpaid for.

What is going on here?

OP posts:
Hocusypocus · 09/11/2018 12:32

@PuppyMonkey I happen to agree with you and have said as much to him, unfortunately he's reluctant to leave before he secures something that offers the same amount

OP posts:
shearwater · 09/11/2018 12:33

i Just one of the many reviews on the company, citing the same problem that DP is having, except this is a completely different area

Jesus wept. Take it to the CEO. If no joy there, go to your MP, Watchdog, anything really to put pressure on them.

This also shows why we need unions.

Tinkobell · 09/11/2018 12:33

Either incompetent payroll staff, or not enough of them. The system needs to be updated
Nope I don't agree with this ^^. If it were straightforward incompetence then there would surely be some cases of overpayments not just underpayment. Sounds like the firms deliberately short changing. Can he whistle blow......I know it's risky, but to the press perhaps?

Tinkobell · 09/11/2018 12:35

OP - what system does the firm have in place for clocking in and out or time reporting?

Hocusypocus · 09/11/2018 12:44

Staff clock in and out on a system on the tills, management is able to see who clocked in and when, thus all working hours documented electronically. There really shouldn't be room for error in that respect.

An allocated employee, usually the store manager but sometimes the deputy store manager in the daytime will go into a system on the office computer to "check and confirm" the hours before sending them to centralised payroll who then pay wages according to the information they're sent.

Store manager and deputy could easily alter the hours before sending them off and can just as easily deduct before sending if they wanted to be underhand.

@Tinkobell I think he should whistle blow and I would if I were him. He feels trapped in a sense and worried to rock the boat too much because we rely on his wage, although he really needs to.

We've known of staff members be set up to be fired just because the store manager wanted rid of them.

OP posts:
hookiewookie29 · 09/11/2018 12:52

I bet the manager always gets her right amount of money....

Hocusypocus · 09/11/2018 12:54

Ironically if somebody is late by say fifteen minutes to half an hour, management has no trouble pointing out when that was and able to explain such deductions from wages.

Yet when people are hugely underpaid for time they have in fact done, suddenly its a mystery.

OP posts:
Hocusypocus · 09/11/2018 12:55

Oh she does, she's on salary and is never underpaid irrespective of whether she's late or not in work.

She had a nice bonus last year too and treat herself to three pricey holidays abroad.

OP posts:
PattiStanger · 09/11/2018 18:41

I'd be amazed if this retailer is in financial difficulties, it's hugely popular and sales are going up all the time.

Whatever the reason for short paying is I'd be pretty sure it's not because they are about to go bust. The manager may be under pressure to improve the performance of the branch and is generally a bit crap at her job rather than having more some sinister motives.

The employees in the branch need to find a way to take their problems higher up than the day to day manager

MulticolourMophead · 09/11/2018 19:22

OP, the more you add, the more I wonder if the store manager is indeed fixing things. Underpayments and no overpayments does rather suggest fixing the wage bill to make them look good, especially in light of the comments about a nice bonus.....

Thing is, the system should be recording all times the manager goes in to adjust the hours, so if your OH wants to complain, the records should be there.

I'd be suspicious of a manager who is regularly adjusting the hours, there shouldn't be much need for it if people are simply clicking in and out.

Hocusypocus · 09/11/2018 20:10

He finally received a response from the store manager who's away, it was a generic "who's hours are short, how many are missing and what days did they work"

He must have this conversation at the very least once every two months. As pointed out, this is all info she should already have as clock ins and clock outs are done electronically.

He's sent across the info after speaking with his colleagues.

The employee who's owed over £500 has refused to go in to work, and I don't blame him.

DP is on his way to work now and doesn't know who, if anybody, will turn up. When this has happened in the past he's been alone in the store all night, with a broken arm at the time, struggling on his own to work stock (that is generally against company policy for somebody to be alone in store but the store manager overlooks that and DP would rather stay on his own than not get paid)

Generally there are two others and him per night shift but one guy has already said he won't be coming in because of this.

DP has been given the direct contact email addresses for the regional manager and also the HR manager at head office so if this isn't dealt with reasonably by store manager then it is going over her head.

OP posts:
Warpdrive · 09/11/2018 20:24

I don't know why he isn't going over store mgrs head anyway. It is absolutely outrageous that the store manager is fiddling the hours being logged for the workers. The regional manager needs to know.

Oliversmumsarmy · 09/11/2018 20:35

Could he not speak to the payroll department directly to find out what hours have been put in.

Hocusypocus · 09/11/2018 20:46

If I were him I'd have gone above her head at the first opportunity but it seems as though he wants to give her - - another-- chance to put it right.

He doesn't have authorisation to speak to centralised payroll unfortunately

OP posts:
Angrybird345 · 09/11/2018 20:56

Contact HMRC anonymously and tell them the company is committing fraud so they are inspected?? No idea!!

gingajewel · 09/11/2018 21:05

I work in hr, if I was your oh and the employees who work with him I would raise a grievance for unlawful deduction in wages, you have the right to be paid in full what you have earned on your correct pay date. It is absolutley incorrect they should have to wait a month for money that is owed to you as you have wasn’t it, this is the route I would go down

gingajewel · 09/11/2018 21:07

Sorry my auto correct made my message illegible!! The end but should say “that is owed to you as you have earned it.... this is the roite I would go down”

RichPetunia · 09/11/2018 21:16

A member of my family had exactly the same problem. He worked for a well known car company and month after month he was underpaid. It was always going to be fixed the following month, but it never was.
It was a problem that repeated itself again and again.
In the end, he found himself another job and left, which was a shame because he enjoyed what he was doing and only left because of the problems with pay.

Hocusypocus · 09/11/2018 22:29

It hadn't occurred to DP to report to Hmrc that may be a good idea.

He's said he's told the store manager the wages need to be rectified now and not next month. If she refuses (and claims that's not possible as always) he's going to send an email to her boss, the regional manager first thing in the morning.

It's so frustrating sitting on the sidelines and watching this happen when we, like the other employees, have children to provide for and bills to pay.

I asked why he hadn't reported her sooner and he said he's been reluctant because he's sure she'll make life hard for him at work, not really the point though is it.

OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 09/11/2018 23:20

HMRC only look into tax issues. If you think it's fraud, that is a criminal offence and should be reported to the police. But that would be an insane thing to do and they would undoubtedly tell you it was a civil matter of unpaid wages.

If the unpaid wages are taking people below minimum wage there is a min wage commission they can report to.

VanGoghsDog · 09/11/2018 23:23

There you go, min wage complaints (not fraud), can be reported via HMRC:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints

LanaorAna2 · 13/11/2018 18:47

MIn wage complaints are a) a crime b) handled by HMRC.

LanaorAna2 · 13/11/2018 18:52

OP, I've read your updates and I think that DH must go above Mgr's head and report all issues, with proof, to regional mgt at once.

Really, really at once. Because if he doesn't, it could look as if he's complicit. A lot of this stuff is criminal (yes, some wage issues are criminal) and at this point, finer feelings over management tact and internal politics won't cut it if someone else raises it and asks why he wasn't shopping her.

If you ask me, she's cooking the books to get herself a bigger bonus. There are legal ways of doing this, but that's clearly not a priority.

Biggreygoose · 13/11/2018 19:01

The fact this is happening across other branches would suggest a wider cultural issue.

I wouldn't expect a great response from regional management.

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