Forced to tip in (not so fancy) restaurant... card payment...

[Forforkssake1]

Aibu to think it's so awkward when you pay a bill and the waitress stands there and hands you a card machine which asks if you'd like to leave a tip? The service was ok, the food was ok, but the glasses were dirty, and one of the meals came much later then the others and one of the sauces had congealed goop on it... because I have no backbone didn't want to make a scene I don't complain, and tipped 10%. Because I felt PRESSURED in to it. When did tipping become such a regular thing in the UK?

Aibu to think the should just up the cost of meals so you don't have to tip?!

What difference does it actually make how MUCH was spent on food and drink? It was delivered in the same way, on the same plates, at the same frequency?

Because leaving a £1 tip per diner when the table has spent £400 is an insult.

OliviaStabler, the service provided is the same regardless of someone ordered a £11 main or £22 main or an £18 bottle of wine or a £54 bottle of wine. I don't tip full stop but I find the act of basing the tip on the % of the meal cost ludicrous.

I don't usually tip. Yes service staff get paid minimum wage but so do plenty of other people and we aren't expected to top up their wages.
Just press no on the card machine. Worst case scenario the waitress feels a bit put out - who cares, you'll never see them again. More likely scenario the waitress doesn't even notice or care.

Tipping policies vary so much between establishments. My favourite one was a place I worked where all tips received in a shift, whether cash or card, were divided up equally between the waiting, bar and non salaried kitchen staff on that shift. The worst was where all tips were collected up by the management and once a month full time waiting and bar staff would be given £50 as their share of tips, and part time staff proportionately less. It was a fairly expensive restaurant, one of our brandies was £37 a shot, and I know an awful lot more was received in tips than was ever paid out.

Shezza71 If it's optional on a card machine I press no, but recently in a restaurant the bill came and 10% had already been added to the bill. Has anyone ever asked for that to be removed?
I have done this once, the restaurant threatened to call the police. I said that I was happy to wait for the police but as the service was poor I would not tip. They gave up and I paid the bill and they did not phone the police and I've never been back to that restaurant.

OliviaStabler, the service provided is the same regardless of someone ordered a £11 main or £22 main or an £18 bottle of wine or a £54 bottle of wine. I don't tip full stop but I find the act of basing the tip on the % of the meal cost ludicrous.

Because tipping in restaurants is based on a percentage of the bill of the table. You surely can't be unaware of this? These days a standard amount is 12.5%. If there are 4 of you and the table spent £400, it is an insult to the staff to leave £4. Like a pp said, its like leaving 67p in coppers with some lint for their pocket mixed in.

The minimum wage is hardly a lot of money. I waitressed before MW and was really grateful for my tips and I earnt them with really good service. Tips were shared evenly between all of us including the kitchen staff.

If you choose not to tip then that is up to you.

That's why tipping is on the way out for many, the entitlement is astounding. My nan always used to tip change as that's all she had. The thought of somebody turning up their nose at that makes me feel annoyed.

I think it's completely outdated, NMW is in place and unless everybody can benefit from 'tips', it doesn't seem fair to me. I tip very well for excellent service, not mediocre service that the person receives a wage for.

In fact, I'd rather see a central 'fund' that all tippers can pay into, and all NMW earners can access. It should be ratio'd perhaps because I'd pay a lot more to supplement those in the caring professions than hospitality.

Just to clarify the law a little...

If the restaurant wants to add a service charge it must tell you before you order. This is usually achieved by mentioning it on the menu. If they do not inform you of the service charge before you order they cannot insist on you paying it. Even if they do inform you, you can still refuse to pay if the service was unsatisfactory.

Some people on this thread have referred to the service charge as a compulsory tip. It may be but it may not. Some restaurants pay the service charge to staff, some keep it for themselves.

Tips to not have to be paid to staff in full as the law currently stands. Restaurants are entitled to make deductions from the tips. The Prime Minister announced a little over a month ago that the government intends to stop this but it will be a while before there is any change in the law.

In some restaurants the tip is kept by the person who served you, in others it goes into a pool to be shared between the waiting staff. In some restaurants the kitchen staff also get a cut.

I have to say that I disagree with the OP. I don't see that the card machine asking whether or not I want to leave a tip is in any way pressuring me, any more than the serving staff asking me if I want another coffee is pressuring me to have another drink. It is a simple question and I can answer no if I want. If I want to leave a tip but haven't got enough cash the ability to add it to my credit card payment is convenient, so personally I don't like it when I am not given this option.

We had simply horrendous service in a Piccolinos a year or so ago. The automatically added a tip on to the bill which we deducted and left the correct amount of cash for what we bought. They wouldn't let us leave the restaurant! It took about 20 mins of arguing with the manager for them to realise that we weren't actually obliged to pay it.

I work in hospitality, we get card tips monthly in with our wages. I’m just off to check my payslip to see if I get taxed on it !!

Everywhere I have been the service charge it states it is discretionary. I always ask for it to be removed and would laugh in their face if they said they were calling the police...

OliviaStabler yes I know that is how service charge is calculated, I ams saying it is a moronoc principle. The waitress has done no more/less work based on the cost of my meal.

I only ever tip for exceptional service, not just a standard one. I especially don’t tip places where you have to get your own drink! harvester

A friend of mine waits and told a story to a group of us recently about how a table of 10 didn’t leave a tip, so he asked them what was wrong with his service. They said nothing was, but they didn’t want to tip. He told them not to come back to the place again That’s mental IMO, and bloody rude of the server.

A refreshing thread- normally non tippers are regarded as pariahs on mumsnet

The best solution would be to add the tip into the total cost of a meal, not as an extra or an addition that people can avoid paying.

A refreshing thread- normally non tippers are regarded as pariahs on mumsnet

Let's hope these non tippers don't regularly go to the same restaurant and don't tip. I'd hate to think what was being done to their food before it was brought out to them.

If anyone leaves us a tip of loose change and pocket fluff we tend to put it in one of the charity boxes we have, I honestly don't find it insulting because you pay the price on the menu, waiting staff, kitchen staff and cleaning staff wages are paid whether you leave 63p or £63 - it's built into the price of the meal.

Some of the stories here about wait staff demanding tips (not service charge) annoy me, you're not entitled to tips, it's an extra, a bonus and I look upon it as such, I'm entitled to my wages for doing my job. Yes they're not great wages for what we do and some of the shit we deal with, but then you have that in most min wage jobs. We get tips every so often, collected and then split between all employees and they are a real boost when you're on low wages, 0 hours contracts, sent home early or your shift cancelled because it's quiet. They can make a big difference in the quieter months and I'm grateful for that.
But the service charge is added by the restaurant, not the staff, and staff instructed to collect it, I do think it's unfair to label serving staff as entitled for that, given that the business usually takes a percentage of a service charge anyway if not all of it.

@OliviaStabler

Let's hope these non tippers don't regularly go to the same restaurant and don't tip. I'd hate to think what was being done to their food before it was brought out to them.

Comments like this really annoy me and add to the feeling that wait staff are entitled. I, nor anyone I've ever worked with would compromise the quality or safety of the food we serve in such a manner, regardless if someone tips or not. Most places I've worked the wait staff check the quality and appearance of the food and challenge the chef if necessary, if it's not the right standard. The last thing you want to do as wait staff or supervisor is deal with a complaint, so you try and ensure that it goes out right first time.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think it's all that common tbh, and I think the individuals that do it are in the minority and it would be opportunistic - kitchens are busy places and I for certain would pull someone and raise a complaint if I saw another member of staff doing something like that.

I agree totally with your post, Henryismyfriend. Only a complete thick-wit would come out with comments like that. Waiting staff are not owed tips and they haven't earned them. They are discretionary and from an outdated custom.

I wouldn't hesitate to publicly expose a restaurant where staff did this. Is it not assault? I think is it and the loss of their jobs - along with everybody else's possibly, would be the consequence. Extortionist behaviour from stupid people not deserving of a salary, let alone a tip.

I only tip (approx 10%, often less) if I think the service was exceptional.

At the end of the day the staff are getting at least minimum wage.

There are lots of shop workers, cleaners, other customer facing roles who also get minimum wage. They don't get tips.

Also personally I don't think the task of waiting is hard (prepared to hear some abuse in response to this). I worked in John Lewis in the past and understand customer service, it would be the same thing plus bringing plates to/collecting plates from the table.

I waitressed for four years and never saw tips that got sent through card.

If you've had good service and want to tip (I never expected it apart from situations like tables of 6+ that had been there 2-4 hours) then please leave cash.

@NRPdad wow what a condescending post.

Waiting isn't particularly hard mentally, but regularly working 12 hour shifts with few or no breaks, running in and out of the kitchen with hot plates, remembering orders and having other customers complaining at the same time, is extremely draining. Also there's a lot behind the scenes you don't see as a customer - we were also expected to make desserts, clean down the kitchen, help with stock rotation and count the tills at the end of the night. If the tills went down we had to calculate things ourselves. We handled complaints, organised responses, took bookings over the phone and had to set up for parties of 12 at short notice.

Please don't talk down about anyone's job. I got paid £3.68 for 2 years waitressing then £5.30 for another 2 years, saw few tips (country pub nothing fancy) and after paying for the bus or a taxi to get me to and from work, earned very little for the amount of effort I put in.

Maybe consider all that next time you think waiting tables is easy and give your server a smile and say thank you. It goes a long way.

@NRPdad and can I just say, I've done a lot of different jobs including executive sales, tutoring, paper rounds, been a personal assistant and worked in a nightclub. Waitressing was the hardest.

@NRPDad waitressing is EXHAUSTING and I found it didn't even remotely compare to working in retail - I've done both. Carrying hundreds of plates back and forth is tiring, particularly if the restaurant is big and has outdoor space, you have to do restaurant cleaning on top of everything @redpandamama which can involve stacking tables and chairs and lugging massive bin bags round, plus you often have to deal with pissed up people who speak to you like you're a moron/piece of meat. I also found it quite mentally taxing at peak times - when you're dealing with 15 tables/60 covers all at different stages of their meal there are a lot of balls to keep in the air. Add late nights to that and it really is not a walk in the park. (Appreciate though some restaurants are busier than others.)

@Henryismyfriend

Be annoyed all you like but I have heard of this going on. It never happened where I worked nor would I have allowed it if I had seen it but I did hear tales from other waiters.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

Only a complete thick-wit would come out with comments like that.

I am not a thick-wit thank you very much. There is no need to be so rude and insulting. I know this goes on in some establishments. Rare but it does happen.

Also personally I don't think the task of waiting is hard (prepared to hear some abuse in response to this). I worked in John Lewis in the past and understand customer service, it would be the same thing plus bringing plates to/collecting plates from the table.

What role did you perform at John Lewis? And in that role did you do things that the customers you faced rarely, or never saw? To make the whole thing run properly for the customer?
There's a lot more that putting plates on a table and retrieving them! Would you consider that alone to be the 'exceptional' service that you speak of?
I'm not going to list the things that wait staff do 'back of house' because tbh the list isn't exhaustive.
I've done retail, care and hospitality. For me, care was the hardest, because of the vulnerability of the clients, it took more out of me and my life than it should have because I'm a worrier. But one thing is a lot more common in hospitality than retail and that's alcohol, and how inappropriate and unreasonable it makes some people. You're far more likely to have to deal with a drink related incident in a pub/restaurant than in a shop.
I'm not saying that entitles wait staff to tips in any way, just responding to your insulting assumption that waiting on is customer service while carrying a plate.
I'd rather have someone who doesn't leave a tip ever, but treats me with respect and dignity any day, over your 10% tip and utterly condescending attitude!

@OliviaStabler

You're really not doing waiting staff any favours by saying stuff like that. As I said I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but just that it's not usual practice which your comment makes it sound. So yes, I'm annoyed when people say things like that, either on the 'side' of the waitress or not, it just perpetuates the thought that waiting staff expect tips and will 'punish' those who don't give them and that's not the case in the vast majority of cases.

@Henryismyfriend

I don't speak for all waiting staff, never said I did and on a forum like this I thought that would have been obvious. I'm only sharing my own experience and what I know of / can happen when I was a waitress.