AIBU to think if you are signed off of work, you cannot go to university?

[LetsLightItUp]

Don't really want to be outing and write a full story. However, in general, if you are signed off of work, surely you can't be in university for the rest of the week?

@SandyY2K - That's not 'taking the piss' that's stating their unfit to work when they obviously are (fraud) - and therefore subject to disciplinary action...totally different...

But just because some people do, doesn't mean 'all do'....it sounds a little 'Guilty until proven innocent' to me, and a cynical approach isn't always needed - especially when it comes to someone's health - from HR......

People do take the piss. I know it and I've seen it. Just because you wouldn't do it.....doesnt mean others don't.

And you are medically qualified in the conditions, know all the minutiae of their lives to understand how a condition affects them?

You do know that doctors put general conditions on sick/fit notes and often leave things out at the request of a patient. Such as the workplace being a toxic environment impairing their ability to recover. HR departments who operate as sick police and assume everyone is a malingerer are normal in such workplaces.

It also depends on what the workplace's attitude is to sickness. The person in question may feel it is simply easier to be officially signed off than to have to call into work, having all the paperwork and potentially the 'back to work' meetings every time they can't go in. Plus surely it's better for the workplace, because they know you're off and they can get some cover in place? Much harder to cover ad hoc missed shifts than ones where you know the person can't come in.

The university is far more likely to have a flexible attitude to sickness than the workplace, I would guess, simply because they don't have to be the ones to manage it. It'll be on the student to arrange to catch up on anything they miss.

If I was too ill to manage both, I think managing as much university as possible so I kept on top of that and just being 'off sick' for the job would be the most practical option - even if it meant I lost pay TBH.

@Tadda

The burger bar was fraud ..but bit the horse riding. The employee said they were unfit to work, yet was out doing a physical activity. It's a piss take and her colleagues who forwarded the screenshot felt so too.

I'm not cynical in every case if course...but when I look at sickness records and see a history of poor attendance over several years ...and in most cases (not all) those with poor attendance have performance issues too.

I've seen far too many miraculous recoveries when they realise we are managing their absence. You can't be so sick one day and signed off for 2 months, then for as a fiddle the next day.

Or those who return to work ad soon as sick pay stops.

I'm speaking from experience of 20+ years in various organisations and real life cases.

I start from the point of all sickness is genuine...until I see or hear something that gives cause for concern or requires further exploration.

It would be a failure on my part in role not to ensure that at the very least, it's looked into by management and question the employee if necessary.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I know that sometimes people studying take time off sick to catch up with course work. People have told me thus outside of work.

@SandyY2K - a gall bladder condition is pretty specific though and you wouldn’t get a sicknote unless you had it. And as not everybody qualifies for removal surgery it can be a chronic condition that comes & goes and while a university with a teaching hospital may be able to deal with a sudden attack an employer might not.

Also, most people who take time off work regularly aren’t poor performers. I was signed off for gaenecological problems and was actually undergoing IVF because while my employer has a formal IVF policy there’s also an informal policy to put those people who use it, on PIPs. As I was and am a top performer I didn’t want that.

Gallbladder is indeed agony, I was lucky that mine only briefly flared up after birth. It may just be that this person wasn’t having an attack that particular day, so could go to uni (if they were having an attack they wouldn’t be able to move really) - but perhaps the attacks are of such frequency that it’s not worth being “at work” as they’d have to take random days often.

That’s basically how it ended up with me (CFS/POTS/fibromyalgia) - I had so few good days that it wasn’t worth me trying, they did better knowing they needed relief staff than suddenly being short if I had yet another flare up. I was still encouraged to leave the house by my specialists as doing nothing at all would lead to further problems, but that didn’t mean I could manage my physically demanding job (on my feet a lot, manual handling etc).

Casually sitting in lectures for a couple of hiurs and working full shifts at a workplace are entirely different.

Workplaces are often unsympathetic to fluctuating or intermittent illnesses. This means it’s actually easier and better for your sickness record to stay off sick rather then manage hour by hour.

Uni is obviously far more flexible as many ppl have noted.

Would it be possible to offer the person a very flexible work option? Come in if you feel well enough, short hours, leave if you need to, do what you can from home? I know people who have had similar flexibility offered to them and have done some work even when seriously incapacitated by an injury or illness.

If they decline though, it still shouldn’t be judged because a medical doctor has signed that certificate and they do sign in good faith.

An 8 hour fixed shift is much harder to commit to than a couple of hour long lectures you can leave at any time

yes people abuse the sick pay system you would have to be extremely naive to think they dont.

To a pp ...I.don't need to be medically qualified to know that sometimes people are signed off sick when they're not sick. I have a couple of GP friends who say they sometimes agree to sign people off to get them out of the surgery. They know their not sick, but they tell me it's the stressof the NHS.

@Cherries101 ... did you miss where I said regular sickness and poor performance were not linked in all cases?... In your case there was an underlying medical issue. That's not always the case.

I've once had the OH advisor expresse her doubts when one employee was holding the wrong side of her stomach for alleged gall stones. When you work with sickness as part of your job, you're exposed to a multitude of cases....not all are genuine sickness. In every organisation I've worked in, the HR team (and line managers) know people swing the lead.

We've had employees limping in to the OH appointment and yet when seen later ...just minutes or hours later when they think they're out of sight.... they're walking just fine.

Surely nobody is naive enough to think everyone with a sick cert is genuinely ill. You've seen the stuff on T.V. where insurance companies go under cover and catch out so called sick people doing activities they wouldn't be able to do if they were injured as they claim and are off sick.

@SandyY2K wrong area for gallstones? Pretty piss poor reasonings. I have gallstones, a fully impacted gallbladder and my pain only comes centrally, but a few people often like to go "shouldn't your pain be to the right"

@confussssed Of course people do - I don't think anyone's saying different? But you can't tar everyone with the same brush!

@SandyY2K and you certainly can't work in HR if you have the attitude of 'Prove it!' everytime someone phones in sick, regardless of the cases you've dealt with before that might not have been genuine - Human Resources or Sick Police? Staff need to be able to confide in you also if their struggling - unfortunately when it comes to illness it's not as simple as 'Flu, 5 days off, back to work'....

@SandyY2K You've been told by a 'GP friend' that they're signing people off sick just to get them out of their office and take stress off the NHS???! Are you for real?

I'd be more inclined to report them!

That would depend on the nature of work and why the person was signed off.

I have an old leg injury which impacts my mobility. There are times when I appear to be walking virtually normally, but even minutes later, the pain can cause me to limp - sometimes it happens almost mid-stride and can cause me to 'pull up ' suddenly, so I don't necessarily think you can say that a person is fine. They may actually be in a lot of pain, even though you can't see it. Mostly, u cope at work, but there are days when I really struggle.

It’s precisely none of your business.

I had to hand my shifts back at my bar job when I had plantar fasciitis because it was absolutely unbearable but I managed to get into uni everyday and sit down at a desk.

Gallbladder pain is horrendous! I’m actually surprised they are managing to study. But the pain can be intermittent; and they can walk out of uni, but not out of work. It’s better that they are off work so the employer can plan around it

It’s also really difficult to fake gallstones on an ultrasound or MRI scan or ERCP. So very much doubt she is swinging the lead

Depends if it's work making you ill

Maybe they are able to go to university because it is not a toxic environment full of curtain twitchers.

Gallstones can be agony, I remember crying with the pain. But it was intermittent, I could be fine for hours, then suddenly utterly debilitated.

I can well understand that someone cannot manage a job but can manage to attend university.

Sitting down in lectures and writing notes/reading (possibly with some of the 'homework' done whilst lying in bed/on the sofa might be very different to shift work, particularly if any of the work is physical (e.g. lifting/bending) in nature!

If a GP is willing to sign someone off then they are ill enough to be signed off, particularly if they are about to undergo surgery.

Also I've heard some people describe gallbladder pain as more painful than labour!

@SandyY2K You sound horrific! I'm glad you're not my HR Manager!

Ps, Doctors don't sign off patients with 'Gallstones' unless they've been seen on an Ultrasound/MRI Scan! The pain can be anywhere across the abdomen!!!!!