WIBU to park in a disabled space?

[FairfaxAikman]

Ordinarily I wouldn't dream of it.

Our local supermarket closes off half the car park with barriers overnight to deter boy racers. It doesn't reopen until after 8am. ALL of the parent and child spaces are in the closed off side.

DS is still small enough to be in his car seat. In the past if I've arrived before 8am I've parked in a normal space but every time I've ended up with someone next to me, making it hard to get DS back in.

There is a row of 10 disabled spaces, all empty. WIBU to park in the furthest one from the shop?

I'm not entitled in the slightest. I have no intention of using disabled spaces but it's pretty crap that the store's solution while the P&C are fenced off is "use the disabled spaces"

Ordinarily I wouldn't dream of it. [ ]
WIBU to park in the furthest one from the shop?

You say you have no intention of parking there, yet your opening posts asks if you would be unreasonable to do so and implies heavily that you are considering doing this and were seeking validation from others. You make it sound like it is the supermarket only who suggested you park there, yet clearly you are/were considering doing this anyway, so don't say that it's "pretty crap" that this was their solution as you clearly didn't think it was pretty crap until you got your arse handed to you on here.

Biancadelriosback, it's not about people arriving in dribs and drabs later in the more ing, as the whole car park is open at 8am. It's about what happens when half of the car park is shut before 8am, which you'd know if you'd read the whole thread.

Of course Bb spaces should always be available, and calculating how many should be do e on a cautious basis. But it needs to bear some relationship to how much they are used.

If there are 5 spaces, and usually 3-4 are used,it would be unfair to remove a space because the 5th one might be needed sometimes - they are nearly at capacity.

If there were 50 spaces, and usually 3-4 are used, then you can remove some without it taking away anything from the users of them, because they are so surplus.

And there it is again. The removal of disabled people's spaces that we have fought so hard for as well as everything else we are entitled to. Cheers.

nobody should ever use any disabled facilities ever unless they’re disabled

That is my point. Why is it so hard to understand?

Which I, and I know many many disabled people, disagree with

Nice. Where are these disabled people that think ableds should use their facilities? As a disabled person and someone who works with a disability charity, I have NEVER come across any. We actually quite like having our facilities for just us, because, y'know? We need them.

Your constant refusal to accept that able people shouldn't use disabled facilities proves that you are ableist and the fact that you "had a disability" that was miraculously cured, makes that even worse.

Professor Moody, disabled people have fought to have sufficient disabled spaces (including at busy times).

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be proportionality in working out how many spaces to reasonably allocate. If the number allocated is far, far in excess of what would ever be needed, how is removing some of those actually going to make a difference to a disabled person?

Why shouldn't there be some proportionality?

So the store provides enough blue parking spaces? But disabled people don’t shop early so they can lose a couple before 8am?!
Wish some of you could spend a single day with a condition that meant you needed a blue badge.

“ableds”?! Really? Are you a “disabled”?

Where are these proportionate disabled people? All around me. You should come visit.

I am not going to disclose my health history to you or anyone else reading this; I said “happy an unexpected” not “miraculously cured”. I wonder how you’d react if I were as dismissive of your disability, as you are of what other people (DVLA included) called mine.

You’re clearly militant in this arena. Good for you, I’m sure many people benefit from your work. I’ll repeat: the fact that I’m not as far along the spectrum of thought on this subject as you are does not make me (let alone “prove” that I am) ableist. It just makes me have a different opinion to yours.

Sleep, the spaces are worked out according to the law. It usually means that they are all taken (mainly by people without blue badges) in my area and there are never, ever enough.

7salmons - I'd stop there if I were you. You're making yourself look atrocious. Saying that disabled people should have facilities removed doesn't make you of a different opinion to me. It makes you ableist.

Oh please do tell me where I can come and visit all these disabled people who believe that some of our facilities should be reduced. I'd love to point the charity I work with there.

The minimum is worked out by law, but stores can obviously have more than that. Where I live, most are free, most of the time. That doesn't mean I think the ones where I live are excessive.

But your blanket assertion thst you should never reduce the amount of spaces, without considering how many are genuinely reasonable to have, I don't understand. Permanently empty spaces benefit no one.

Reduction should only be done after properly looking into the pattern of use, but the amount of spaces should bear some proportionality to the amount needed. Which where you live, would mean more, in some places, it might mean less.

Interesting. Have you shopped in every shop in your area at every minute of the day and night? That must have taken some time and effort.

Where have I said the amount of spaces should never, ever be reduced? I don't think they should, without deep and intensive research, but I haven't said this anywhere.

I've said that people who are not disabled should never park in a disabled space and I vehemently stand by that.

As someone who spent a great deal of her twins first year frequently having to use hospital car parks with the smallest spaces imaginable and having to get car seats out of both sides, YA still BU.

So many solutions to this: go when the car park is fully open, get shopping delivered, use a sling or buggy rather than putting your car seat on a travel system.

I'm shocked that you need to ask. You are absolutely wrong, as well as utterly selfish, to park in a disabled bay when you are not a blue badge holder. Stop trying to justify it; you're insulting disabled people.

It's about what happens when half of the car park is shut before 8am, which you'd know if you'd read the whole thread.

I have read the thread thanks, you can see my responses throughout.
So, in your opinion, the 10 BB spaces can be used by any and all until 8am? What happens at 8am then? Is there a traffic warden who will ticket all the cars still in those spaces? How exactly will that help BB holders if/when they arrive? They get to sit idly in their cars waiting for the none BB holders to finish their morning shop? How fun.

Alternatively, people can just park in normal spaces and BB holders can park in the BB bays? Afterall, I'm sure there are more than 10 normal spaces so why not take full advantage? It's only people like OP who apparently can't manage in these spaces yet so, so many of us can and do manage just fine.

Oh Moody. Beauty/atrociousness is so very much in the eye of the beholder. Come back with substance, something more than name-calling, and perhaps you might find more traction.

I do not know if my local ones are excessive. I said that in my last post.

I've had a look at my local supermarkets on Google. I have no idea what times the satellite footage was taken. Perhaps it gives a snapshot, that where I live it's not the case that they are 'usually taken', so maybe the situation is different in different areas.

11 spaces free at the waitrose (can't work out how many in total), as its hard to see which taken sapces are disabled, and which are P&C. I think it'd about 50% of capacity.
2 free at aldi (out of 4). I think they could do with increasing their disabled spaces here as 4 isn't enough!
Tesco, 18 spaces free. 20 taken
Lidl, 4 free out of 5 or 6

I wouldn't on the basis of that snapshot suggest removing any of the spaces btw, even if it was representative of how much they are used. But if it is typical, I don't (except for aldi) think any more would be proportional.

These things should be evidence, not principle based.

I don't need to come back, or find more traction. You're the one who is advocating removing disabled people's facilities and I am the one fighting for them.

I think it's perfectly clear who has more "traction".

Hint: It isn't you.

So, in your opinion, the 10 BB spaces can be used by any and all until 8am?

Uh no, as I have clearly said throughout, that would be unreasonable. What is not unreasonable is to look into whether all 10 spaces are needed, or have a reasonable likelihood of being needed before 8am, and if not, that a disabled person is then not loosing out if they swap some with the other side of the barrier.

On these threads, I’ve noticed many non blue badge holders saying they often seen empty spaces. I’d love to know where they live. As a long term BB holder who travels a lot for work, that is not my experience. Ok, the rural Tesco extra BB spaces may be empty at 3 am but how about at 4 pm?

No Moody. I am not talking about removing facilities from disabled people.

But shouting 'it's mine, it's mine' even if it's never used, not even at the Christmas rush is just petty, and it's not in anyone's interests.

We need an evidence based approach.

Sleep - again I'm not talking to you.

gets popcorn

Schuyler - I've asked and asked where these people on these threads live, where all these blue badge spaces are always free. They never answer.

I live in rural West Wales. I frequently travel to larger places in South Wales such as Swansea, Cardiff and Newport. I also travel to areas of England such as Kent, Dorset, London and Gloucester.

In all of these places, both rural and built up, I struggle to find a disabled parking space. I frequently have to go home without food/prescriptions/other shopping or without being able to park to attend medical appointments, academic stuff and courses/moderations at other schools.

More often than not, many of the disabled spaces are taken up by people who do not have badges.

Most people don't want to give away their home city, any more than their name on an Internet forum. If it means that much to anyone, I'll happily PM them.

I have no idea what is so wrong with taking an evidence based approach to assessing the number of spaces. If they are 'all full' or even 'mostly full' even some of the time, then there is absolutely nothing to fear. If they are mostly empty all of the time, and the data backs that up, there is absolutely nothing to fear from a few being removed. That's surely the point of it being evidence based.

I live in Dorset. In some places the disabled places fill up - in others (like my local hospital) they’re often the only empty spaces available. Some are used obviously but I’ve spent huge amounts of time in that car park and I’ve never seen the disabled parking area even close to being full.

There’s another hospital we travel to regularly - there are disabled spaces by the entrance which are always full, but the disabled spaces in the main (tiny) car park are barely ever used at all (which is a bit frustrating when there’s a 60 minute queue to get into the car park - not an exaggeration, there’s even a sign which says “wait time from here approximately 60 minutes”

There should always be plenty of disabled spaces, there should be more than is needed so that disabled people can always park. That doesn’t mean they’re always distributed correctly.