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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to wonder what will happen to education in the coming years

88 replies

Icannystandit · 30/10/2018 17:37

Teacher shortages are becoming ridiculous. I work in a key dept in secondary and to the best of my memory we haven't been able to be fully staffed for the last 8 years. It's getting worse now though... there seem to be less and less people out there willing to do the job.
The council can't get enough teachers and we are just left to get on as best we can.
I am in Scotland but I understand it's a nationwide issue.
I am currently staring being 3 staff down and no end in sight. We have classes at maximum. Junior classes out to random supply ( no subject specialist supply available) and we are trying to set work for the uncovered classes on top of all our own work and marking.
It can't continue... and yet there is no end in sight.
Today I again had to leave my lovely s2 class to a cover teacher whilst I took the higher class down the hall who haven't now had a teacher since June. My own classes are getting half of me and the other classes are getting half.
parents are complaining but the council literally can't do anything. Other schools have the same issues. It's so depressing.

OP posts:
SilverApples · 31/10/2018 08:53

All prospective teachers should work as a TA for two years? So you get a degree, then work at just above minimum wage for two years?
Doesn’t sound appealing at all, annie

SheSparkles · 31/10/2018 08:55

I totally agree with what others are saying about teachers needing to be paid more. We all know the days of teaching jobs being 9-3, if they ever existed, are well in the history books now. I was actually shocked when I realised just how low a newly qualified teacher’s salary is.
Teaching as a profession should be attracting the best graduates, but there’s no chance of that with the salaries on offer

ohreallyohreallyoh · 31/10/2018 08:58

the quality of supply is poor

I shifted to supply a couple of years ago for lots of reasons that all came to a head at the same point and I realised I needed to have something ‘give’ in my life. I believe I am ‘good’ supply and fortunately am a shortage subject teacher so can always find long term contracts.

But let’s consider the facts: we are not paid if we don’t work so no holiday pay. We do not get paid the same amount the agency charges the school. We are not able to contribute to a teacher’s pension. We walk into classrooms with the minimum of information and often with no cover work left. We are given lanyards with the word SUPPLY in huge letters and a different colour to staff. No one ever tells us where the toilet is let alone the location of the key needed to open it.

In secondary, day to day work has been reduced to cover supervisor which where I am pays £70 per day. That is reduced if you happen to be free last lesson as they send you home to reduce their costs. I am also increasingly seeing schools offer rates of £15 to cover just period 4. That’s for qualified professionals, often with years of experience under their belts.

Primary fairs no better. Increasingly schools are paying for a HLTA to cover day to day absence.

On long term, we are frequently subjected to lesson observations and performance management for absolutely no chance of an increase in salary. A massive issue for people in their early careers. We are expected to attend meetings, do parent’s evenings, mark all work according to policy without that added protection of a contract. In fact, my agency could phone me tomorrow and say my current school no longer needs me and there is nothing I can do. No job security even if you take on a contract. Many struggle to get mortgages.

Frankly, for £70a day, you don’t get the best of me. On contract, where a HOD talks to me, throws resources at me, thanks me for attending open evening, you get all of me. Too many supply staff are ignored, belittled and undermined whilst trying to do a tough job. That’s ignored, belittled and undermined by their colleagues before they get in front of a class looking forward to some fun when teacher is absent!

angelicanto · 31/10/2018 09:00

@ClemHFandango I am an English HoD and don't require anyone to include numeracy whatsoever. That is not a statutory requirement it's a bonkers hoop your own school are making you jump though

Everytimeref · 31/10/2018 09:11

We have just discovered that our MAT isn't paying at recommend rates. Some teachers are being paid about £1000 a year less than the guidelines but the leadership roles have had a higher than recommend pay rise.
MAT were introduced to break teachers T and C's and it's happening.

RangeRider · 31/10/2018 09:12

Parents need to start supporting teachers.
This ^^. If teachers didn't have to face disruptive pupils and their parents who fail to provide discipline at home and support to the school then maybe more people would be interested in the job. Some things can't be fixed just by throwing money at them. At some point people have to take responsibility themselves.

SilverApples · 31/10/2018 09:14

Exactly, angelicanto SLTs with ridiculous fantasies and expectations, and the power to make it compulsory for minions to obey illogical ideas. One of the many things that make supply interesting is how the individual dictatorships are run, and how what is unquestionable dictat in one is unthinkable in another.
I also agree with ohreally about supply, but for me, the trade was worth it.

Clionba · 31/10/2018 09:20

There's a thread currently on here complaining about a teacher killing a spider. She's come in for a lot of abuse. Those people need to read this and get a sense of proportion.

moonlight1705 · 31/10/2018 09:52

My DH is a secondary teacher and is finding it so hard despite being one for 20 years. He is applying for SLT jobs without really wanting them as he feels he is less likely to be made redundant if he has an extra 'job'.

He is expensive in comparison with NQTs but has masses of experience and great feedback but constantly feels he is having to prove why he is 'just' a teacher rather than HoD or Head of Sixth Form.

In their department of 6 then 3 are not on full timetable due to being HoD, Sixth Form, Deputy Head etc and two others are NQTs. The hours he puts in are awful and I would never retrain to be a teacher seeing what he has to do.

Whatdoesitmatteranyway · 31/10/2018 10:12

I think we have a cross roads........

Keep the way we are doing and do a disservice to all pupils.

Go back to excluding trouble makers, those who don't want to learn and teach moderate to severe SEN separately.

Then the vast majority can get an decent education - what you do with the rest is a separate issue.

I think we need to accept that as much as inclusion is a nice ideal - it does a disservice to NT and well behaved children and only serves to benefit those at the bottom.

Whatdoesitmatteranyway · 31/10/2018 10:13

And allow teachers to discipline children (not physically) without fear of parents claiming their little cherub is being picked on, shamed or made to feel inadequate.

MaisyPops · 31/10/2018 10:29

Atlantisen
It doesn't have to always only benefit those at the bottom. I think that's quite unfair on a lot of schools that do manage inclusion well. Equally, send and bottom aren't synonymous. Just because a child has send needs doesn't mean they are stupid.

If inclusion in mainstream was adequately funded then it could work for minor to moderate send needs. The problem is it isn't and the demands on mainstream schools are sometimes not compatible with offering the best routes for send students. If you've got an outstanding school with good results and an excellent send base then you can afford to take the gamble and tell ofsted to stuff it if they want to question why x children have don't nonleague table qualification that ate best for the children. It's harder to do that if you're in a school scraping the floor standard, high turnover of staff, lots of change every couple of years.

Behaviour on the other hand i'm in agreement with you.

angelicanto · 31/10/2018 10:35

@SilverApples yes I imagine it must be fascinating seeing things from the supply perspective. I know what you mean even from my most recent move. It's amazing how many things people accept unquestioningly "we have to do this...." etc when it doesn't have to be the case

Euphemism · 31/10/2018 13:14

@angelicanto I assume you’re in England. In Scotland the Curriculum for Excellence made literacy, numeracy and health&wellbeing the responsibility of all teachers and it should be included in all subjects. Not every lesson but certainly a part of the overall units of work.

ButchyRestingFace · 31/10/2018 13:15

Once, when I was being observed as a very new teacher, was told to devote part of a lesson on Mrs Frisby and the Rats of Nimh to a task on working out temperatures because some of the characters were very cold. It was tenuous at best.

Sounds hellish. I would have been horribly unsuited. Sad

angelicanto · 31/10/2018 13:47

@Euphemism oh I hadn't realised that was a Scottish context. The more I hear about the curriculum for excellence the more I despair. I often think I'd love to live in Scotland as I went to university there and spend a lot of time there but the developments in education do concern me and I wouldn't want my children in that system.

Euphemism · 31/10/2018 15:41

When I started teaching the Scottish system was highly regarded worldwide. CfE has turned it into a joke. The N5 courses (GCSE equiv) have been overhauled every single year since they came out.

ClemHFandango · 31/10/2018 16:26

@angelicanto: Are you in Scotland? Under CfE we all have responsibility for numeracy, literacy and health & wellbeing. I don’t have to shoehorn it in everyday, but there is an expectation, which is written in to the Standards for Full Registration, that I will address these topics within my teaching, regardless of whether that’s an absolutely bonkers idea or not.

ClemHFandango · 31/10/2018 16:27

@angelicanto That post came out much snippier than I meant it to! Apologies for my tone!

angelicanto · 31/10/2018 16:42

@ClemHFandango not at all.....it was pointed out to me that you were talking about the Scottish system

Walkingdeadfangirl · 31/10/2018 16:55

Couldn't Scotland just charge a small fee on every prescription and use the money to fund schools. Problem solved Nicola, I wonder why she is so against it?

Original poster
Icannystandit · 31/10/2018 18:56

I often 'forget' to include numeracy in my English class. I think cFE is an absolute joke. We are destroying education with weans who canny sit still and learn because some eijit told them they were confident individuals and then forgot to explain that being an effective contributor actually requires listening and responding not doing what the feck you like.

OP posts:
Holidayshopping · 31/10/2018 21:58

Some teachers are being paid about £1000 a year less than the guidelines but the leadership roles have had a higher than recommend pay rise.

That’s bloody appalling.

No one has moved up MPS this year in my school-despite meeting all of their PMR targets-because there’s no money-it’s just crap. We have no money for glue sticks, the roof is leaking, we can’t afford to put the heating on and the LSAs have all been made redundant. The only way I can see it heading is for swathes of classroom teachers to be got rid of and TAs (no such thing as HLTAs where I am-anyone covers PPA, literally anyone!) to be given plans by a member of SLT (the only one I expect) and ‘deliver’ them. It will be crap but if they scrap Ofsted (not sure minimum wage TAs would poke up with Ofsted solely observing and blaming them for the ills of society?) , maybe they’d hope no one would actually notice just how crap?!

Can anyone see a different future?!