To ask how you make a loveless marriage work 'for the children' - and if IWBU to have another child with someone I know doesn't love me

The most selfish thing you can do is have another child in this situation! To put another child out of choice, and being fully aware you are doing so is absolutely unforgivable! Don't contemplate it for a second longer!

Now imagine this scenario, being a single mum with two kids but you knew this before having the second - why would you do that to anyone.

Coming from a split family isn't ideal, but staying in an unhappy one is far worse! Why would you even consider another child - I can't beleive you would be so selfish (If you actually want to bring a child into an unhappy loveless relationship) and I'm sure its just the shock.

I am really sorry you are going through this. I know it is hard and there are no easy answers.

It sounds like your H shuts you down when you try to talk about issues and resolve them. That's something you have to do in healthy relationships. I think you should try not making excuses for him (I'm more verbal than he is, maybe I'm expecting too much) and see what happens if you approach this as a perfectly normal baseline thing to expect from your partner.

Here's what I'm trying to say. Being willing and able to listen to your partner's concerns, reflect on them, bring self-awareness to the table, and make compromises while maintaining healthy boundaries for yourself are all key skills you should be expecting your partner to have. That's not some over the top flowery romantic ideal that is almost impossible to find in real life. It should be very, very basic shit.

I don't know what the right answer is for you. I left my H recently and it is tough being a single parent and knowing I'll never be able to give my child a sibling. But I feel so much better not coming home to a critical, perfectionist, emotionally unhealthy partner. It was the right choice to me--and my H insisted he did love me and in his screwed-up way, he did love me (he was just a sod to live with). You don't even have that, and that's heartbreaking.

Definitely keep on with the counselling.

MY DH grew up in an unhappy home. His two younger brothers did too. The parents finally separated when the youngest went to university. It has left a mark on all three of them. My DH wasn't sure about having children as he didn't want to be as bad a father as his was. He's actually great.

My mum also grew up in an unhappy home which culminated in her parents divorcing when she was 13. She has always said although they had no money and times were hard, it was much happier because all the sniping and arguing had gone.

I guess what I'm trying to say is kids are very perceptive. They can tell when things aren't right. And they get hurt. If one child had highlighted the cracks in your marriage, two will blow the house apart. I'd accept its over and leave and give your daughter a happy life.

All this staying together for the sake of the kids gets on my already freyed last nerve.
20 years down the line your kids WOnt thank you. Oh and believe me they will be picking up on it.
My mum and dad were great separately as parents but as couple they were toxic. They divorced when I was 17. I never truly forgave them for not doing it sooner
My dd was the result of a fling. O knew me and her dad were never going to walk down to live happily ever after. . However like said I knew he score.
I Certainly wouldn't be having a ababy and living with someone who didn't love me. To me its either all or none.

It sounds to me like he is at the cold end of the relationship spectrum and you are at the intense end. I don’t think I could live with either of you.

I think if you have ANY chance of rubbing along together you need relationship counselling to find a middle. Otherwise it’d be best to just call it off now. Will he go to relate with you.

Your husband sounds rigid,critical and controlling. I feel for your daughter’s sake you should leave. My parents stayed together for “the sake of the children” and my siblings and I grew up in a war zone-constant fighting and criticism for each other no peaceful,happy times, almost no love displayed towards one another. My siblings and I were damaged emotionally and psychologically. From your posts I think you have anxiety and low self esteem-believe me, settling for less isn’t the secret to happiness-learning to love yourself is-once you love yourself you can set boundaries in relationships. You and your daughter both deserve it.

TBH I've been thinking about this and it's highly irresponsible if not incredibly selfish to purposely bring a child into a loveless relationship which you know is going to end. It's not completing a family, if the family is already over. Sorry if that's harsh but enough posters have pointed out how horrendous it is to grow up in a loveless home.

Woah woah woah, you think your standards for being loved are unrealistic?! They're not. Like, really really not. I would lay money you're anxious and feeling insecure because you live with someone who thinks it's OK to say 'oh yeah I don't love you but...yeah let's stay together cuz selfish reasons'. Honestly, you are expecting the basics. So much love to you.

I'm not sure about this. The way you describe things OP, I too would shut down if someone was being this intense with their questions. It sounds like an interrogation.

People do have to communicate in relationships but that does not mean one person being overbearing in their approach and being rigid in their definition and understanding of words.

Not everyone's definition or understanding of love is the same. Rather than focus on the definition, judge him by how he treats you and the children. Love is not always about grand gestures and all the jazz we see in the movies and read in love stories.

It's unclear what it is you want from this man for you to feel he loves you.

Such a sad thread, I really feel quite sorry for the situation you find yourself in. He has admitted he doesn’t love you the way you want to be loved? Is that right? Please please leave him, do not have another baby with him. It will cause you such heartbreak, you know you and he are over and this will only prolong your agony. Gain strength from knowing that you have nothing wrong, you are worthy of love and affection that you deserve and crave. Life goes on.... not with this husband though. Good luck.

I always think it's strange that unhappily married people would think my life as a single parent would be too hard. Being trapped in an unhappy relationship, feeling miserable every day but unable to see the end - that sounds way harder to me.

I'd take yourself to marriage counselling to start with - it can help you work out exactly what you want.

You can't make a loveless marriage 'work for the children'. All you will manage to do is teach them that marriages should be loveless. They will grow up to expect that for themselves.

My parents stayed together "for the kids" or should I say, because they had kids and it was easier for both of them to be a pair rather than alone. It caused my siblings and I untold emotional damage and I have very few happy childhood memories. Living with parents who don't love each other was very tense and depressing for us. We could sense their unhappiness but didn't understand it. We could that something wasn't right but didn't know quite what... They were unhappy and snappy and angry half of the time (because of feelings towards each other) and then happy and lovey dovey the other half. It was confusing and disarming and we never knew what to expect. I can't even write how bad it was because I feel like most it was sensed, just feelings and emotions and confusion and sadness that is so hard to explain. Please don't do this to yourself or your kids. I remember when my parents finally divorced and it was like this huge weight has been lifted from all of our chests ... Like an anxiety /stress and tension was finally over after all those years. Now they're both remarried to people that that are happy with and are perfect with and it's so lovely to see. We see our parents laughing, kissing, holding hands, cuddling up to each other on the sofa, spending genuine, happy time together - there's just a real happiness in our family now that I feel was stolen from us as children. And while they are now happy my siblings and I are all still dealing with their decision - all of us suffer from some sort of mental health issue which we are sure comes down to witnessing and being unwilling
participants in their confusing, tense,, painful loveless marriage.

I don't know - I don't know what love is either, but I know it's much more than what you say it is. My mother thinks my father doesn't love her, I can tell he loves her desperately and shows it every chance he gets - she just can't see it, because he won't say it.

It sounds to me like you might have a communication and a mismatched expectations problem, more than a "love" problem. Love doesn't make the world go round or relationships tick. Respect and communication do.

I think this entire thread might be one of the saddest things I've ever read.

What is best for your child is growing up in a happy and loving household. Whether that is with 2 biological parents, a single parent, one parent and a step parent , whatever. You have one life OP. ONE. Don't waste it with this man.

Its not just about your relationship. I wonder how he will be with your daughter when she is older? Do you think he finds it easier to be loving to her now as her can impose his "right way" of doing things on her? Once she is a teenager she will have her own ideas - how will he handle this?

OP I am not going to give you advice about whether you stay together or break up or have anther baby or not.

I would just say that if he is not abusive to you, and if you were once in love, or loved him, and believe he loved you, then I think you might be able to get that love back. I would invest in counselling either as a couple or perhaps even alone if it helped.

If you can stand something very vaguely religious I would look into this...

themarriagecourses.org/

It is not religious really but is run by churches. It is like an organised date night. I did this and have had counselling with my dh. We love each other but we are very different people. I am an extrovert, a feeler, and a night owl, he is an introvert, a thinker and gets up much earlier. He is a physical, fit person, I am NOT!

We really knew all this when we got married but the early years it did put a strain on things.

I would say I fell for him early on but I've done all I can to nurture my love for him and I've found him to be the most amazing husband.

Learning to love your partner as they are but also moving closer together in what you like to do and what you want, is important. However, being a doormat or putting your own needs to one side is not on!

If at any time he is disrespectful, violent, aggressive or anything, then I would not pursue it. But if it is just a bit of a personality clash, I think you can overcome it but may well need to learn to work together.

Good luck.

Only you know what feels right for you OP, but if it were me, I'd be gone.

He has said he doesn't love you. Ouch. At least he was being honest I guess but wow, I can't imagine staying with someone who I knew didn't love me.

You said your best time with him was when you were trying to get pregnant and then pregnant with your child. After that he was no help and your relationship has been on the rocks pretty much ever since. He's moody now, it will only get worse.

You wonder what you can do to make him change his mind. There is nothing you can do, I'm sorry but you can't make someone love you if they don't.

You say you love him, but wouldn't mind if he had an affair. Hmmm.
I think you've fallen out of love with him, but don't want to admit it to yourself (been there, done that), but you're getting there. I think you're scared to be a solo parent (and I don't blame you, better the devil you know as they say) BUT, the longer you put off leaving, the more the situation will erode your self confidence, and the worse your relationship will become, because you'll both end up feeling trapped and resentful.

You've said you know it's not a healthy way to bring up your child. You're right, it's not, and what's worse, you are setting up your child to think that this is what they can expect from their relationships when he/she gets old enough. Our parents are our role models and bench marks. They are our default settings.

You deserve to be happy. To be loved. Your child deserves to be part of a loving happy home, or homes. It is possible you know.

My ex was a good man in a lot of ways, but I had got to the point where I couldn't pretend any more, and I knew it was not good for our children to think that what we had was a normal healthy relationship.
I decided I would rather be a solo parent than to live a lie so I left.
Fast forward a few years and I met someone who loves me unconditionally and absolutely, and my children. I maintained a cordial relationship with my ex and he was still very much part of my children's life, which now they are adults, they have said, several times, how grateful they are that we didn't turn the family unit into a war zone with them as pawns, and how living in 2 homes as they grew up has actually helped them see things more clearly from different perspectives.

Please OP, do the same for your child, and yourself. Have the courage to give yourself permission to do what you need to do to be loved and happy. Life is too short to waste it being locked in a loveless relationship.

You should definitely not have another child in this situation. However, I'm not sure that leaving him is the right choice. My parents are still together despite having had issues that were obvious to my siblings and me growing up. They get along but they're not emotionally/romantically close. But it wasn't a volatile relationship, there wasn't abuse or shouting. We had a stable upbringing. I do not think we as children would have been better off if they'd broken up and we were splitting time between households.

Something my parents did on my mother's insistence - counselling. Highly recommend it for you. Tell your husband it's essential if you're going to stay together and coparent your child. Through the process you may learn some things about him and your relationship that make the choice to stay or leave clearer.

This is a tough one. OP can you say a bit more about what your day to day life with him is like? Because to me, well I don't really believe in "love" the feeling, to me it's actions. However I wouldn't tell my partner this. If asked I would be kind enough to lie and say I love them very much.

I think what you said here:
I would accept what we have - a basic standard of kindness, cooperation by and large, a shared vision for how we want our lives to go
is not only what is acceptable, but it's the best anyone can hope for.

You could do a lot worse than completing your family with someone who is kind, works, does housework, good father, and just is pleasant to live with day to day. Even if it's not romantic.

On the other hand if it's constant arguing, it's not worth it.

Also how old are you? You've been together 10 years, so you must be at least 25. If you are 25, it's likely you could leave and meet someone else who may want children. If you are 35 though, if it were me I would complete my family with him. Don't let a man take away the children you want just because he has decided he "doesn't what love is".