To think a good GP is a rare thing these days

[BackInTime]

Just based on experience but I feel that GP care in this country is seriously lacking. GP appointments at my local surgery seem to be filled by locums and it is virtually impossible to get an appointment with a GP. When you do get seen they barely pay attention - I took DD last week for a pretty bad infection and he was more concerned about his printer than DD.

I get that the NHS is stretched but it seems that they way they are failing to treat people in the first instance leads to people either having to come back or they end up in hospital which is not cost effective or good patient care. Why not just give patients their full attention for 10mins in the first place.

Staysafe

'Gps can afford to work part time'

If you worked three days a week as a GP, you could still easily clock up 40 hours. 12 hour days are the norm and then you have extra hours for paperwork. A friend works 4 days and then means nearly 60 hours a week.

Would you want to work 12 hour days for five days a week? Would you like to be the last patient that GP sees on a Friday? If it's not safe for air traffic controllers, why is it safe for doctors to work such long hours?

Bertiesgal I am hugely grateful for some of the amazing treatment I have had from the NHS and really appreciate many aspects of my GP service, but one should feel able to complain if one has a bad experience with a Dr or any other hcps, they are not saints to be venerated.

When I lived in SE London, I didn't have a particular GP I saw every time, as often the waiting time to see the same one were very long (as a teacher I always try to book appointments before or after school or to miss as little teaching time as possible). I was going through fertility testing at the time and kept having to explain myself to different GPs. It was very frustrating.

My current GP practice I have a named GP that I see every time. He only works 1 day a week (does some teaching stuff at the local uni) so knows me and DH well, always remembers what's going on with us. The appointments are short and to the point, but he definitely listens when you have something to say, he is kind and sympathetic when he needs to be (like when I had a miscarriage last year) but also tells it like it is (like when DH wasn't sticking with the medication he was prescribed). He is really great and when we move I will miss having him as my GP. If I could pay him to be my private GP I would! He really is fab!

3 days a week, 40 hours, £40-50K pa. Doesn't sound a bad deal to me.
I worked as a criminal defence solicitor for years. I was a member of several duty solicitor schemes and quite used to being in court all day and at the police station for part of the night, usually dealing with vulnerable adults and young people, Solicitors doing this vital role don't earn nearly as much as a GP.

@staysafe yes, completely agree that criminal defence staff are underpaid, (a barrister I once knew told me he would sometimes make a net loss on cases which were far away because he had to pay for his own travel)

However, the point of this thread is not to compare how well different professions are paid. @bridgetjones makes a good point that a tired doctor is a doctor who misses things, and explains why most doctors are unable to work 5 days per week when the work is so mentally taxing. Being a GP is by no means a cushy job and £40-£50k is not an obscene salary when you take into account how much training it requires to become one.

Staysafe -

Then maybe you should have trained as a doctor?
Only five years at Uni and then at least three years on the job training. You would also get to deal with vulnerable children and adults on a daily basis, work early mornings / evenings and weekends and you'd actually get to save their lives at times. Just as long as you can do this in ten minute appointments whilst trying to weed out the worried well from the really seriously ill person.

It isn't a game of top trumps - a solicitor, at times, should maybe be paid more but so should teachers / police / nurses etc.

Staysafe maybe you should have become a GP then?

My practice is great, receptionists are nice, only had to wait more than 10 minutes once. You ring up and they say if you can come in now there's an appt, usually same day or at least the next day. The only thing is my doctor doesn't say anything! He's a fantastic doctor but has uttered a few words to me in all the appts for me and my son. However he's incredibly thorough but just does things without you knowing what he's doing. He won't just dish out antibiotics for anything and is very hot on referrals.

My sister is at the same practice with the female GP and has been visiting regularly for 5 years and has had every referral under the sun, and has now been diagnosed with fibromyalgia at 17. Her doctor is seeing her regularly because she believes fibromyalgia must be caused by something and goes above and beyond to figure out pain control and causes.

@bridgetjones not to mention that if you make a mistake - somebody can die! And you can then be prosecuted!

And the GMC can strike you off and ruin your life as well, sometimes for personal behaviour that has nothing to do with your job!

For instance the doctors who were arguing over Laura Kuenssberg in a bar in Spain, it got out of hand, some drunken punches were thrown and the doctors were hauled in front of the GMC and threatened with being struck off. They were not at work, they were on holiday in another country!

The only point I would seek to make is that in many other jobs/occupations and professions - and I would especially cite support workers for very vulnerable individuals - people work long hours, have responsibility for the safety and welfare of others and earn far less than GPs. No it isn't a game of Top Trumps but The training to be a duty solicitor is as long - 3 years uni, 6 months what we called "part 2" training contract and duty solicitor specific training before you can act in that role. I'm afraid GPs always want to say they have the worst deal.
I could have gone for medicine instead of Law when I was making those applications many years ago, but the idea of enhancing the lives of groups of people through my wider work was particularly attractive, so I took the legal route.

I love my GP's surgery, well I mean I love the people in it, they are all fabulous and get occasional wine or chocolates.

You will always be seen the same day if you need to be, you might have to wait until after surgery has officially finished.

They hold some appointments for same day and have others you can book ahead. The reception staff are kind and helpful.

I was booking an appointment and I was upset about something so they asked if I wanted to go into a private room - just to book an appointment!

They use technology well, I get a text telling me I am eligible for a free flu jab and the times of the clinics, prescriptions are sent electronically to my chosen pharmacy.

My only quibble is that the GP I see most loves sticking needles in me. Contraception? Have an injection. Swollen joints, steroid injection. Pain that persists after the use of pain killers, a TENS machine and anti inflammatories - have some acupuncture.

hazeyjane of course people should be allowed to complain but the title of the thread is a sweeping generalisation and a hurtful one at that.

GPs are not Saints but it’s hard to imagine they anybody who has a concept of what the job actually involves would post such a lazy thread title.

Surely as it’s Aibu I’m entitled to a right to reply?

Over my many decades of being on planet earth, I have only ever come across one GP who was lacking in care or (frankly) knowledge. That was many years ago. I wept when one of my GPs retired a few years ago and thought I would never be seen by someone as understanding and caring again. Thankfully I was wrong. Whether they are locums or partners in the practice, they are currently ALL marvellous - one saved my son from a burst appendix after he was discharged from A&E with 'nothing wrong', and my current GP is just incredibly brilliant with mental health issues. I feel SO sorry for the lot of them, they work stupid hours, are constantly barraged by the public, are abused, and blamed for the poor state of the NHS when it's really not their fault.

It's the systems that don't work - I'm seeing two different consutlants for two different things, and NONE of them match up on the same clinical record system, which means none of them, including my GP can see all my records, despite me giving them all full permission. This brings delays, backlogs and probably more GP appointments to review meds than is required.

So, God save the GP, and damn you, stupid, unweildly and crap computer systems....

@staysafe support workers do a valuable and important job, but it is possible to start a career as one with only a GNVQ. Compare this with the lengthy and rigorous training required to be a GP and the two are in no way comparable when it comes to salary (and incidentally, the gov.uk site suggests that an experienced support worker can earn up to the £50k a post upthread suggested that a GP could make for working 40 hours over 3 days per week). I actually don't think that GPs are known for complaining about poor pay or saying that they 'have the worst deal'. Having spent a lot of time with GPs (including my partner) the most common thing I hear is that they are frustrated and upset that they are unable to dedicate enough time to their patients, scared of litigation and mentally exhausted.

Rather than undermining the work that GPs do by insinuating that they are overpaid, perhaps it would be worth lobbying for better, fairer pay for those other essential services that you mention? I don't think they get paid enough either, but bashing GPs is not the answer.

I am perfectly aware how stretched the NHS is and the pressure that GPs are under. I respect the work that they all do and have family that work for the NHS so I know first hand how bad things are but this does not mean that GPs are beyond criticism as are all professions.

My point is based on my personal experience and also family and friends. I rarely visit my GP, I treat stuff at home and use my local pharmacy for advice where possible. When I do go for me or my DC it is for good reason, I have to sit hanging on the phone from 8am on the dot redialling in the hope of getting the golden ticket of an appointment. In desperation I will take whatever appointment is offered with wherever doctor is available and I have to take time off work at the last minute to attend or wait two weeks for another appointment. After all this, is it too much to ask for to be treated with courtesy, to be listened to, to have confidence that the GP is vaguely interested?

@backintime yes of course you should receive those things - but equally, please remember that what you perceive as discourtesy and inattention may actually be efficiency. How about you walk us through what happened in your DDs appointment? I would hazard a guess that the GP asked you to explain why you were there and some of the symptoms, was perhaps slightly brusque in cutting you off when you (understandably) started telling him things which were irrelevant, he examined your DD and realised very quickly what her ailment was because he's seen it 3000 times before, then focussed on getting her notes updated on the computer and filling out the prescription, then fighting with the printer, whilst you continued to tell him things about your daughter's infection and were upset that he seemed to not be listening, when actually he's already diagnosed the issue and needs to get the printer working so you can get your prescription and not have to come back later, and so that his surgery doesn't run late. Am I close? It's understandable that you're worried about your DDs infection, but your GP has a responsibility to provide an end to end service within 10 minutes so will be efficient where he needs to and needs to get the admin side done alongside the 'patient care'.

Re booking an appointment - it is not the GPs' fault that it is hard to get an appointment - there are lots of sick people and not enough GPs, and spending time listening to every concern of a patient on a cut and dried diagnosis does not help that issue. Also, if you're in such dire straights that you need a same day appointment I wouldn't have thought you would be sore about having to take time off work to attend the appointment?

Ours are all great, although I did see a locum once and I wasn’t impressed by him. I think he’s still there over a year later- when does a locum stop being a locum?
I worry that the partners will leave though because I hear how hard it is for GPs.
The nurse practitioners are pretty good too, for minor ailments.

backintime there’s a big difference between people being beyond criticism and your sweeping statement that “a good GP is a rare thing these days”.

People sticking up for GPs doesn’t mean they people believe that GPs are beyond any criticism.

Your title was mean spirited and lacking any evidence base. FYI your own personal anecdotes and those of your family don’t put you in a position of superior knowledge to generalise about an entire profession.

I’m sorry that you had a bad experience, genuinely I am but your thread title is exactly the kind of lazy stereotyping that is demoralising an overworked workforce.

You have no idea how hard GPs work or the responsibility they take to bed with them every night.

At the rate things are going you won’t need to worry as General Practice as we know it will be the “rare thing”.

The vulnerable and elderly and those suffering from chronic illnesses will suffer the most but hey ho, I hope you enjoyed your thread.

Ours are fantastic but seriously overworked.
I suspect it’s very much a case of be treated as you treat with a much nicer attitude towards patients who are polite, who don’t always know better, who listen and who have reasonable expectations.

Ours is totally different OP.
Great surgery here. Get an appointment really quickly. No locums. The doctors we see are great.

My GP has been my GP for over 10 years and her attention to me and care is superb.

I'd have loved to have been a GP. Some would've loved me, some hated me - but I'd have performed my best for all.

Like everyone - I've been seen by a mixed bunch. One saved my life (his fiancée posts on MN and I was able to tell her which was nice), some haven't been so great (MH problems but I present as "normal"), but the only one I REALLY objected to was the one who touched my leg a fraction too long and asked whether I had a boyfriend or not... He was let go and when I asked why the fuck he was ever hired (he'd touched a number of us) I was told he'd been the sole applicant...

I suppose you could say that they don't pass go if they co operate with some of the bookings systems in place with some surgeries that make it nigh on impossible to get an emergency appointment or to book to see the same GP for a follow up. I'll probably get slated again but vets ( same or even longer training, less pay if salaried employees) are generally highly rated by the public. For a payment of £40 per appointment you get to see whoever your want, on the same day if they are working. They are invariably friendly, kind and knowledgeable and manage to see patients who cannot communicate how they are feeling in less than 15 minutes. Mine invites me to text or email her at any time if i have a sick animal and am worried. The receptionists are lovely. I just wonder if this is because GPs are state funded or if we would get the same great service if £40 per visit was forthcoming via funding or privately?

I avoid the GP at all costs, ours in particular are repugnant.

When DS failed his hearing test and was diagnosed deaf I went through quite a dark period and I asked the GP at a check up about if he could recommend a course of action with his experience such as a cochlear implant, speech therapy... I just wanted some kind words I think.

He stared at me, looked at my baby and looked back at me with literal disgust and said ‘he’s deaf, do you want me to pull out a magic wand. You’re his mother accept him as he is!’ As though I had asked him to euthanise him.

I cried the whole way home as a first time mum with mild PND and a three week old baby who couldn’t hear a thing in the world; absolutely broken hearted being made to feel I was failing my son.

It’s been a good few years and I wouldn’t change him for the world and I’m tougher now.

But fuck me, Dr Allen you’re a bellend.

www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/gps-receptionist-admits-every-single-appointment-is-a-personal-defeat-20181028178768