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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Cheeky, cheeky fucker...

121 replies

OkMaybeNot · 27/10/2018 07:00

I have a small business selling handmade items. It is very, very niche... It's not anything like crochet or

OP posts:
Mummyundecided · 27/10/2018 07:46

You don’t need to register copyright, but that would only cover wording, eg, the advert. If she’s copied your name/wording, you could pay a solicitor to send her a cease and desist letter, but that might be too expensive for you (not knowing your margins, income, etc on your sales). The items themselves, presumably, could be patented, but that’s more difficult, and you’d need to prove your makes weren’t produced by someone else beforehand.
Definitely block her though, she’s a CF. Do you have a good friend or family member who can give you access to her page to see exactly what she’s posting?
Agree with those who’ve said you should add ‘the original’ to your advertising.

Iaimtomisbehave1 · 27/10/2018 07:58

@OkMaybeNot

If it is an artistic work then you automatically have copyright; you don't need to apply.

Send a cease and desist letter; you can find templates for those online free so you won't need a solicitor. Usually that is enough to scare people into stopping. I've had to do that.

www.gov.uk/copyright

Read there for a start.

DeltaG · 27/10/2018 08:03

If you are in the UK then you don't need to 'copyright' anything; it is automatic on the creation of eligible work.

DeltaG · 27/10/2018 08:06

@Mummyundecided

You can only patent inventions, not creative works.

Mummyundecided · 27/10/2018 08:47

Thanks Delta. Apologies for not being clearer. We don’t know what the OP makes, it possibly could be covered by patent, but I’m guessing that in any case as she’s running a small business, it would be too expensive/difficult to do. My point was there’s no copyright in the product (unless it’s a book/artwork/music for example).

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 27/10/2018 08:50

But it involves handwritten calligraphy and heavyweight parchment

That’s a shame- I was hoping it was that teddy bear made of turkey that is doing the rounds...

woolduvet · 27/10/2018 08:59

I think you can report personal Facebook pages who run a business on them.
And ask all previous buyers to leave a review if they've not already done so.

auroraboringalice · 27/10/2018 09:04

She sounds a CCF for sure, but

She's copied, BADLY, what I do

^^ It looks like the problem will take care of itself?

MissionsNotPossibleCosImaGhost · 27/10/2018 09:06

@Iaimtomisbehave1

But the person in question isn’t copying the OP’s work and trying to sell it as though it is an original OP make, she’s making her own version and selling it as her own made by her. A cease and desist letter wouldn’t apply in this case.

chocolatecoveredraisons · 27/10/2018 09:08

I get it's frustrating but I always unfollow those to post about copycats.
She's a cheeky fuker and knows it, but I cannot stand it when a business puts it on their page about it. Just let your work do the talking and do it on your personal page if needs be

SalemBlackCat4 · 27/10/2018 09:10

Unfriend her and block her, from your personal facebook AND business one. That is so frustrating when people do that, but for friends to do it, even if only a facebook friend? It makes it even more insulting.

Iaimtomisbehave1 · 27/10/2018 09:15

@MissionsNotPossibleCosImaGhost

Copyright infringement isn't the same thing as making something and passing it off as an original.

It is copying design work and selling it as your own. In the end, a court would need to decide if the work is similar enough and detrimental enough to the original brand; there are guidelines on what would count like material used, shapes, fonts, design points etc.

But, a letter to stop is usually enough to make the person stop without having to go to court. Especially as the woman knows she copied, so being called out on it might stop her. If not, court is an option because if she is copying designs then that is copyright infringement.

Artists, jewellers, designers do it all the time but often the work isn't specific enough. This sounds specific enough.

I've had to do it, I won.

flumpybear · 27/10/2018 09:15

Just a thought but could you have a conversation asking her to be very different as you don't want her inferior work to be mistaken as your stuff as you're established and want to ensure people understand you give them a service but it's not involving her - perhaps say people ha e commented whither I've taken on a staff member

Iaimtomisbehave1 · 27/10/2018 09:17

Or comment under one of her most liked posts saying "Hello cheeky, these look very similar to my designs. Could we have a chat about this?"

Racecardriver · 27/10/2018 09:20

@missionnitimpossible if she has copied the work and copied the advertising then it could be passing off. For example. If someone is making a carbons ed cola drink and packaging it in red packaging with white curvy writing what do you think that is? Likewise, in this scenario OP has an established nice business selling a niche product. CF has made a similar niche product and composed her advertising to be so similar to OPs that without being familiar with either business a potential customer that saw one business page then a week later saw the other could reasonably believe they were looking at the same business. @OP it depends on how similar her set up is but I would consider it worth a cease and desist letter if the potential loss of Christmas sales will outweigh the cost (you can still write the letter even if you can’t actually sue her). Do you know anyone who will do it cheaply as a favour?

sluj · 27/10/2018 09:24

Why not make a big deal in your own advert saying that you have undergone training, have x years of successfully running the business and use only the best quality parchment from Egypt - or whatever.
Anyone trying to compare the two products will be interested in that. You also need to put some genuine "happy customer " comments on your site as she is likely to falsify a few.
Unfortunately you can't stop her from setting up the business, you just have to deal with her as competition now.

TheCraicDealer · 27/10/2018 09:24

I'd leave her to it. If she's shit she won't last long. Might change my bio to include location/"the original"/"trading since xxxx", but I wouldn't be damaging my brand by getting into changing an established name or calling her out on it.

I support two local businesses who have had this happen to them and both have done the sm post where they say they've become aware of the copycat and how disappointed they are that a former customer has done this. I was very sympathetic but I see from previous posters that they don't receive this kind of post well.

Original poster
OkMaybeNot · 27/10/2018 09:30

Well I've found her on a selling group, seems she can't hide public posts from me. Itching to comment.

OP posts:
Original poster
OkMaybeNot · 27/10/2018 09:31

I won't comment.

I have liked the post though.

OP posts:
Iaimtomisbehave1 · 27/10/2018 09:32

A simple comment like "this looks very much like my design, can we talk about this?" Would be fine.

No slagging her off or insulting names or bad language. Just the fact.

prh47bridge · 27/10/2018 09:33

No, nothing copywrited

You don't have to do anything for copyright to apply under UK law. You own the copyright in the wording of your advertisement. If she has copied that she is in breach of your copyright. You own the copyright in the designs of the products you sell. If she has copied that she is in breach of your copyright.

You don’t need to register copyright, but that would only cover wording

Not true. Copyright covers any artistic work. There is no test of artistic merit so, for example, the design drawings for an engine component are copyright.

As others have said, if she is in any way attempting to mislead people into confusing your business with hers she could be guilty of passing off.

You can't stop her from competing with you but you can stop her if she is competing unfairly - copying your designs rather than creating her own and/or trying to win customers who mistakenly think she is you.

Assuming she is competing unfairly, I would try an informal approach. If that doesn't work, get a solicitor to write a letter. A warning will probably be enough to make her stop.

WorraLiberty · 27/10/2018 09:43

Surely it's just business?

It happens all the time, even in the high street.

You'll see one shop opening up, selling certain things in a certain style and if it's successful, you'll see the town centre filling up with very similar shops.

I honestly can't see why you're so surprised?

99RedBalloonsFloating · 27/10/2018 09:47

You probably have unregistered design rights as well as what @prh47bridge has said above.

It's not good for your business if she is actually confusable with you - it's not the same as someone just doing a slightly crappier version of what you do. I would probably email her a stiff letter using some legalese and asking her to desist and remove all the copied material immediately. She will probably panic and do so.

If not I would then as others have said, send a real solicitors letter.

MsLexic · 27/10/2018 09:54

I have had similar happen, someone copied my paintings ( badly) and a friend bought one of hers ( which was cheaper because it was shit) instead of one of mine, thinking she as supporting the group i was in.
The woman admitted ' hey I hope you don't mind me copying your work?'. As it was meant to be women's art support group I left.
To be honest, the backstabbing was phenomenal.
Where money is concerned feminism does not get a shout.
Personally I would get a solicitor to write to her.

mummymeister · 27/10/2018 09:58

I think that you need to take this seriously and get a solicitors letter sent for passing off. It will affect your business especially if she is undercutting you in terms of price. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who will just look at the two items, not realise the difference and go for the cheapest. you need to protect, formally, what is yours. She may just be doing it for Christmas pin money but then if she makes enough it might not just stop and then the damage to your business would be greater and long term.

I am involved with advice to small business start ups and the common mistake that one person businesses make is that they don't see their business as "real" . You have to adopt a "big business" mentality over things like this. Obviously, she wont be happy that you have sent her a solicitors letter but this is business and not against her as a person. The example about cola and how these big companies react is spot on. You need to act now before there is any reputational damage to yourself. good luck.