It’s so homophobic

[Fearandsurprise]

I got embroiled in a discussion this week with the organiser of LGBT events in their workplace. They were not LGBT themselves but said that they had set up an LGBT group at work because their sibling is gay and they “wanted to help LGBT people”. No mention of how running the group raised their own profile in their organisation.

We were sat in an office in a country where same-sex
They started waffling on about

Sorry, posted unexpectedly.

That's straights for you.

We were sat in a country where same sex marriage or civil partnerships is still not permitted and many LGB groups are focussed on changing that.

They started waffling on about how they are making their group (in a large, influential organisation with access to Givernment officials) focus on trans rights instead.

I shook my head sadly, and said it’s such a shame that the trans agenda is so homophobic, and explained why. They really didn’t have a come back to that and kept saying about “being fair to everyone”. I kept taking the conversation back to asking them about what their group and organisation was doing about campaigning for the rights of same-sex couples. Sadly, it seemed that it wasn’t something interesting / attention-grabbing enough for them.

I’m wondering if that’s why so many seeemingly-sane non trans people are trumpeting “trans rights” - is it just a way to draw attention to themselves?

Oh awesome another anti trans thread.

🙄

I’m fed up with homophobia. And with attention seekers.
“Trans” is just the bandwagon people are jumping on this year.

I hope it doesn't go on much longer! You can't look at media articles without 'trans' coming up and, in reality, there are very few trans people.
An unhealthy obsession.

Hate to say it but trans rights does seem to be the new cause célèbre. For some its a platform to prove you are more politically correct and 'right on' which I would say is the case for your colleague. Your final parargragh sums it up perfectly.

Really?
Ffs let it go people.
I sometimes think that there are some that will bounce up and down for the slightest nerk.
Homophobia should be fucking obsolete by now. It’s bloody disgusting that we are still having these stupid conversations.

But trans ideology is homophobic penisbeakers.

KC225 I agree.
In the country where this discussion took place, same-sex marriage is not permitted, but transsexuals are permitted to marry their opposite gender. There is still a lot of campaigning to do for LGB rights, but that cause seems to has been dropped like a hot potato in international businesses in favour of trans issues.

I agree that trans right are dominating every debate and this to the detriment of others, however you were never going to change his mind.

I don’t think I’ve ever met a trans person. Not knowingly anyway. Large group of friends the other night saying the same thing. Are they really that big and common a group that they need a zillion and one threads on here?

I don’t know a huge amount about trans issues. Don’t get me wrong I absolutely disagree with the erosion of women’s rights to cater to any man who “identifies as a woman”. But really how big is this problem?

Well reading between the lines, you don't like the person, you don't like their motives and you think you (a visitor) know better than the residents how they should be campaigning in their country.

If you can do better, in that country, do it.

Because I notice you do not specify which country, not what rights trans people might have or not have there. Nor whether, given the differences, there is any incompatibility at all in that place.

Instead, you post yet another anti-trans thread.

Because transphobia is also wrong.

Threads about what do do in Britain under British law about competing protected characteristics (such as what is permitted in terms of expression of religious belief and whether that is defined by those of the faith or those of other, incompatible (possibly smaller) groups - they are hard enough. Even when they don't start by bandying -phobias around.

Not everyone is antitrans.

Not on MN, not anywhere.

ThereGoes I understand that there are about 500,000 trans people in the UK including about 5,000 transsexuals. The rest are, from the Stonewall definition, part-time cross-dressers, men with autogynephilia (aroused by thinking of themselves as a woman), non-binary people etc. 85% of male-born trans people have no surgery or hormone treatment.

Camel What makes you think I am a visitor to that country? And what makes you think the person I was talking to is a resident there?
I am campaigning in that country for same-sex marriage to be allowed.

It’s the trendy thing for pseudo liberals to coo about over their soya/coconut lattes at the moment. Most workplace diversity causes at work are exactly the same a box to tick on a career progression agenda (cos let’s face it work ability has fuck all to do about it). Next year it will be something else backed by an over aggressive pressure group targeting big business.

Camel You also said “you don’t like that person”.
I neither like nor dislike the person. I was having a discussion with them, and we each had a different opinion.

My personal opinion, shared on here and not with them, was that they are using the trans cause for their own personal gain, and were willing to cast aside their previous support of LGB causes as they are no longer fashionable.

I’m not sure how you extrapolated that into being “antitrans”.

“But trans ideology is homophobic penisbeakers

Has to win an award for most mumsnet post of 2018.

So you are upset that a group is focusing on helping trans-people gain rights instead of focusing on same-sex marriage, even though you have admitted that there are plenty of other organization already focusing on that? YABU yes.

As a queer woman, I am glad some associations/organizations offer support targeted at trans people, LGB people tend to have had groups focused on them for decades so I do think it's only fair and considering plenty of organization are (according to you) working towards making same-sex mariage legal in that country, I can't see how this one organization focusing on trans people could in anyway damage the issue of same-sex marriage in the country you are currently in (issue which will also affect trans people who have had their gender legally changed and are dating someone of the same sex btw).

I currently live in the US, where Trans people might have their rights completly erased and I have plenty of trans friends and I am glad some association are having their back and looking out for their interests (not saying this specific organization is doing it for the right reasons), trans people have different experiences and needs to the ones of LGB people (and even within the LGB community gay women and gay men also happen to have different needs/experiences), I mean you just have to look at mumsnet to see how accepting most people are nowadays of homosexuality vs how people react to any thing related to trans people (to the point that even just the word trans seems triggering these days!).

So no personally, I don't think one organization chosing to mostly focus on trans right is homophobic, the same way I don't think an association who focuses mostly on a gay rights is transphobic/trans-exclusive. I personally find it a bit saddening that you seem to want to divide our community when I feel we should all be looking for each other's interest/fight for each other's rights.

Also trans people can't really be held responsible for the decision made by a (cis) straight man to have his organization focus on them despite your wish to somehow blame it on the "trans agenda".

Yes, it does seem like the guy is wanting to look good and edgy being a vocal LGBTQ+ activist, but if it does help get more visibility and more rights, I can't personally be bothered to care. Most big brands who promote LGBTQ+ related items around pride time aren't really doing it for our benefits either, we still enjoy the fact that they do bother to do something though.

Linning I agree with much of your post. Yes, groups and organisations can and should campaign for or support different issues.
I also agree that LBG people and T people have very different needs.
Unfortunately, much of the trans agenda is against LGB people. So, this person is now campaigning against LGB people, despite building his role based on a stated support for them.

As an aside, I did not say the person was a man, I have not put any blame onto trans people, and many find the word “cis” offensive.

I hadn’t said they were a man, until I used the word “his” in my recent post. Doh! Still, hopefully it doesn’t impact on the discussion.

In the country where this discussion took place, same-sex marriage is not permitted, but transsexuals are permitted to marry their opposite gender.

Do you mean that a transman can marry a man? Surely this is because all their paperwork would still list them as female as they are not allowed to change it?

Slash A transman who can provide medical proof that they have had SRS can marry a woman.

And yes, a transman who has not had SRS (or does not declare it) can marry a man.

Many people still see trans rights as analogous to LGB rights, and are unaware of the homophobia innate to trans ideology.

Most people still assume that transwomen are all very vulnerable dysphoric gay men who have had surgery.

When they appreciate how much things have changed - that most are not dysphoric, that very few transwomen have genital surgery and most are attracted to women - people's view alters radically.

It was finding out that lesbians were being bullied into accepting entirely male bodied individuals as potential partners (the Cotton Ceiling) that first opened my eyes to the homophobia and misogyny of this movement.

I agree with you, Fearandsurprise. To campaign for trans rights in a country where transgender people can marry as their adopted gender but gay marriage is still illegal reveals a very strange set of priorities, .