Advice needed on complex guardianship request

[LouL0u78]

Hi. I'm looking for some opinions for a complex situation I have encountered. A friend of mine recently asked me if I would be the sole guardian for his 4 children in the event of his & his wifes death. Children are aged between 9 & 16. A few of them have extreme behaviourally challenging needs (external services have been involved to support) & whilst him and his wife do a good job, they still both struggle with the demands of their children. They both have family & siblings, not too far away (under 20 mins drive) but don't have particularly close relationships with them. I have no children myself (down to choice) but my husband has 3 children from a previous marriage who live with us for some of the week. We both work FT to support the home & life we have. Both our families do not intermingle, just me and my friend have the friendship which started in the workplace 15 years ago. I care for his children & feel very fond of them, but they have never so much as even stopped at my house and being asked this life changing responsibility came very much out of the blue. If I felt capable of raising 4 children I would say yes in a heartbeat, I could possibly even take on 1 child, but I feel that all 4 is too much of an ask of 1 person to adequately meet the needs of the children. We sometimes struggle as a blended family now and I have no family around me to assist at all. I also feel like by saying yes to this request I would be putting my husband and his children's needs last.

Can anyone offer any advice?

Have you talked to your husband? I think I would want to know what his thoughts are as it's something that would affect the two of you. To be honest it is a big ask but your friend clearly thinks very highly of you.

You mention the children have had services involved, would this be a barrier at all? As in would they automatically step in?

Services would still be involved with the children due to their complex needs. I have spoken to my husband and he sees the situation for what it is. He wants to support me, but we want to be realistic not idealistic. There would be 7 children to care for and obviously his children have already been through turmoil and he will naturally be wanting to put their needs first, like all parents do. He also has no emotional connection with my friends children, they are strangers to him and my step children. Due to the complex needs of my friends children, I wouldn't be able to offer the time and support I give to my partner's children, I would have to quit my job, move home etc So I guess I am having to choose between my friend and my partner's needs and would be saying it may be a possibility to say goodbye to the life we have now. I think asking someone to take responsibility for 1 of their children is a big ask, so 4 is completely overwhelming me right now. My friend does think a lot of me to ask this but it unfortunately does not make me feel any better as having to live the reality would be very tough.

There’s no way I could do this, even for family.
I would be honest and say though you’re very honoured to have been asked, you can’t provide the love, attention and special care their children deserve. You’ve considered it long and hard and it’s just not possible within your family setup.

Personally I think agreeing would leave you as a single parent pretty quickly as your DH would naturally put his dc first and it sounds like there would not be a natural link between the kids.

It’s a very unusual request considering you don’t interact much with the children and the families don’t socialise together. I strongly suspect they’ve been turned down before. It wouldn’t be fair to these children not your stepDC to say yes imo

I think you have to put yours, and your family's needs first. I wouldn't be able to do something like this as it would completely change my life and those I care most about.

You hint that you may lose your friend if you decline, is that the case? If so I wouldn't consider that very fair.

Is it a request which is likely to called upon? Are they ill ? Or is it a hypothetical situation? We asked a friend 14 yrs ago but happily not needed them yet. Also would the expectation be that you would actually look after them or have a say in their future. We made it clear to our friend that the guardianship would not mean that they would have to move in (although they have said that they would) rather that they would, in conjunction with social services, make decisions for them. That might include adoption if that was best for them (e.g. if very young). Now they are older and increasingly independent it would be more likely that our friend would move in until they were 18. Could you agree to be the guardian on the basis that it might not be you providing all the care? They might trust you to make those decisions over their own family.

I agree & fear that it would leave me as a single parent, of 4 grief stricken children, with already behaviourally complex needs. I couldn't blame my husband if he could not commit, because if the situation was switched I don't think I could do it. One of my friends children has been known to be violent against other siblings too, and this concerns me as I don't think I could sleep at night in case there was an outburst on my husband's children. I have chosen not to have any children of my own as we don't feel any more children between us would be in the best interest for the ones we already have (I am also in my 40s), so this situation has thrown me. I see the strain my friend and his wife are under (they separated 3 months ago due to the strain, but because they are good people they are trying to work through it). I know in a realistic world I will be alone. Our families don't spend time together because we all work. I also work shifts and when I do go to see my friend it is often in a morning for a few hours and we have a coffee. I am more than happy to offer help with his children, ensure they are safe, spend time with them, support them, but I didn't know if this sounded like a selfish cop-out.

It's hypothetical, but I have to accept that it could become a reality. I would never agree to something based on the premises that it isn't likely, because even though a small chance, it exists. My friend said I would get a bit of money and would be rehomed with his children, so I can only presume it means we live together, full time.

HarmonyRays I don't "think" I would lose my friend. He is not unreasonable. I just feel so guilty and selfish for thinking I will have to say I can't do this. It's a horrid situation to be in. Thank you for all your comments btw as it is helping me rationalise.

If the DC are aged 9 to 16 now, within 9 years they will all be adults. It's pretty unlikely that both parents will die before then (unless they are characters in a children's book). Don't you think your friend is just asking you so he feels he's made an arrangement should the worst happen? You could say, as a pp has suggested, that you'd be happy to be the named guardian but not necessarily resident with the DC, or you could just agree to tick his box and assume it will never happen.

I was named in friends' wills as guardian to their one DC, it would have been disastrous for me if I'd had to step in, but realistically I knew it was such a remote possibility.

Hello OP, Do not for an instant feel guilty about stating very clearly that you and your husband would not be able to give these children the attention/care they deserve, however much you may want to - it is not physically possible. Especially so considering that the parents themselves of the children are struggling with "only" the four, never mind you coping with a total of seven. I find this request a little disturbing to be honest and am reluctant to say what is lurking at the back of my mind, but do you think your friend has possibly reached his limit with the breakdown of his relationship and is looking to reassure himself the children will be taken care of by somebody he trusts because he is looking for a "way out"? By that I mean choosing to end his life. Sorry if that is entirely inappropriate but in your position I would be more worried about your friend's state of mind because his request seems so bizarre yet he is a good man ,as you say, who maybe just can't cope anymore? Please disregard if you find this offensive, it is absolutely not the intention.

You don't want the responsibility so you should say "Sorry, but No". It doesn't make you a bad friend or a bad person it simply means you acknowledge that you are not best placed to provide for his DC's future needs should the scenario described eventuate.

As mentioned above guardianship doesn’t mean you have to care for the children.It means you aquire parental responsibility and so make choices about what the best options are for the children.If you didn’t feel able to care for them,and no family members put themselves forward you would work with children’s social care to look at care options for them.It doesn’t mean what you think it does but it perhaps also doesn’t mean what your friend thinks it’s does if they imagine you would care for the children.Maybe you could discuss this and suggest they get some legal advice?

Love the username BloodyBridget, made me instantly think of Bridget Jones. I don't know why my friend has asked me? He knows my situation with stepchildren and husband but I think because he only has a relationship with me and not with us as a family unit, he doesn't realise what it would likely destroy. I do believe he does just want some peace of mind, but I wouldn't agree to something just because it's not likely to happen, if I had no intention of following it through. I know people say it's not likely, but we as a race have a mindset that "it won't happen to us" but the truth is we don't actually know that. It could happen tomorrow and if it did happen, I would feel like I have gambled and put my husband and step childrens wellbeing on a chance. It's a too bigger decision to agree to based on chance. I would be more than happy to step in as a guardian for his children to ensure their well-being and welfare is prioritised, but as I said earlier, this isn't what he has asked and I am unsure if it sounds like a cop-out.

MeandThem I don't think it is in appropriate what you have said, I appreciate the honesty. I do believe the asking came about, simply because they were making a will and his mother had made some unhelpful comment about his eldest boy being a 'naughty little sh*t' so he didn't from that point feel he could ask her to be a guardian. It's hard not to feel guilty, but thank you for your kind words. I feel it would be impossible for me to do a successful job, particularly when I do see him and his partner struggling as the natural parents and as a unit.

Thanks for taking comment in the spirit intended OP. Shame about the grandmother's comment.... You are obviously a much kinder person!

Grandmother is bit of an old fashioned arse by all accounts. Not very helpful at all really.

Don’t feel guilty, it’s a huge ask.

If / when you do say no I would suggest positioning it mainly as the impact it will have on your family.
You mentioned he doesn’t know your husband or step children so possibly doesn’t see the latter especially as significant in your life.

Say something like “DH and I have discussed it and he would support whatever decision I make but ultimately I have to consider the impact agreeing would have on my 3 step children [dont say husbands children as it puts distance between you].
Moving home wouldnt be an option and it wouldn’t be fair on your hypothetical grief stricken children to remove them from their home and in with 3 other unknown children.”

Being named as guardian in a will does not oblige you to become the foster/adoptive parents of the children. You are still being the "guardian" if the pathway is to have a conversation with social services to assess the best optio for each child, which could include them going to an unrelated foster carer for example. No one can force you into this or oblige you to sacrifice job/home/marriage.

I don't think it's useful to try to pre-think this stuff. The overwhelmingly most likely situation is that you will never be called upon to do this. If the worst happens then the specific circumstances will be relevant so pre-thinking is useless anyway.

We chose our friend over family because we know that he would do his best for them and his views on children are more like ours. He also sees them more than family do. Although we would like him to take them, realistically we would be dead and so he will do what seems sensible at the time. It would only be a commitment until 18.

The oldest one could be housed elsewhere (which may even now be safer for the younger ones) or board at a state boarding school etc. If you accept then nake it clear that although you would be ok to act as guardian you would not guarantee to keep them together but would try to do your best by them and leave them to decide. Social services would definitely be involved and although they would be keen to get you to have them all realistically it may not be possible anyway if the eldest is a risk to his siblings.

Having said that no is a complete sentence and don't feel that you must agree to it.

Thank you all for your input and advice. I know it would be more pragmatic to think it is very unlikely, but unfortunately due to the seriousness of what he has asked me, I feel I have to make a decision based on it being a possibility just incase it should happen. The children do have a lot more contact with grandparents than with me, but I think my friend feels I am not old fashioned and would make better decisions for his children. I know on paper it would only be until there 18, but realistically I couldn't just count down the years till this time and then switch off from the 9 years of responsibility I have had, it's nearly a decade and this is a long time out of a lifetime. I don't believe my friend does see my husband or step children as significant as they actually are, partly because he never sees us as a unit. I love my little family more than anything in the world and it would break my heart to tear it all up, but then I think that is selfish of me because the heartbreak of spitting from my husband and stepchildren wouldn't compare to the heartbreak my friends children would be going through of losing their parents. I feel it's a no win situation.

We recently went through thinking about this as we have two dc with autism. In the end we put down my mum in the knowledge that it meant she would decide what was best for them not necessarily take care of them herself. I am pretty sure that msny people who are named as guardians if the worst happened would not be able to take on the children. That said I would perhaps tell your friend that you would not be able to care for the children yourself but would if he wanted be involved in decisions about their welfare.

Cansu, yes I would feel more than happy and would want to help with welfare decisions, but having all 4 live with us and then 7 in total for several days would not be a positive situation for any of us. As much as I wish this would not be the case, the reality is that it would be. My friends eldest child has Autism and has not been in school since he was 5 as he just couldn't cope. The family have a lot of complex needs, hence why I feel overwhelmed with even being thought of that I could just leave my family, home & what we have built together to move in with another family and just be able to do a great job. It seems incomprehensible to me, but I didn't know if I was being unreasonable in this line of thinking.

Dont feel guilty or selfish. I’m sure if your friend knew that you agreeing would (likely / possibly) lead to the split of your marriage and family then he’d be horrified to think that he even asked you to consider it.

Your family comes first for you and that is never unreasonable. Not even for a moment.

Your friends children have caring grandparents / wider family they can turn to. Just because some are seen as old fashioned or sometimes not as understanding as the parents would like doesn’t mean it falls to you who aren’t even an ‘auntie’ figure to them, just their dads close friend.

You don't have to apologies for putting your and your family's needs first.

If this person is a friend he'll understand and support you on that decision.

This is a huge commitment - and you've clearly thought long and hard about the emotional and practical ramifications, now it's time to let him know you're not in a position to fulfill that request.

Thank you. I had to put this post out to get other people's opinions & it appears that everyone thinks very similar. If I had children of my own I don't think I would feel guilty about saying no, but got some reason, when you have step children, people don't always see it as a commitment on your behalf, yet we are very closely knit and my step children rely on me for stability. I don't want to risk taking that away from them, but it would be a high probability that if I agreed to my friends request, I would. I know deep down my friend just wants to know someone will be their for his kids should anything happen to him and his wife, and of course I would do that, but to have 7 children, who don't know each other and with complex needs and different parenting styles, it is a recipe for disaster and I would feel fraudulent by pretending it would be fine, because it wouldn't and when my family fell apart because of something I have agreed to I would feel terribly guilty.