Any civil servants out there?

[AprilMayJuneJuly]

Really boring OP that’s not very juicy at all (sorry!), but I’m posting this out of curiosity.

I’m a civil servant at EO level (which is more or less the most junior grade). I’ve been in my role for around seven months. I’m based in London, and am not with the Fast Stream or any development or fast-track scheme.

Just out of curiosity, if you’re a current civil servant, which grade are you at and how long has it taken you to progress between grades?

Thanks!

Joined as an ao, progressed to g7. A year between grades but with a long heo period when I had my children. CS for 10 years. No fast stream!

Hi OP

I'm a G7. I joined the CS in 1987 as an AO. I worked part time for a few years as I had a young DS.

Moved out of an operational area to a corporate one in 1995. Got promoted to EO in 1999 after a year on TDA. I then joined a specialist team as a trainee in 2002 where I started a professional qualification in 2003. Got promoted to HEO in 2004 after passing the first part of my qualification.

Finalised my qualification in 2006. Got promoted to SEO in 2008. I still work in the same specialist area. I could probably have applied for G7 sooner than I did but I wasn't ready to take on more responsibility.

Are you looking to progress?

Thanks so much for your replies, Kwackerly and Harvey!

I’d like to look into progressing to HEO level within the next year, hopefully.

I started the EO role in spring this year. I would like to feel fully confident and to feel that I perform consistently well in my current role before then thinking about how I can perform over and above the requirements of EO level. At that stage, I’d like to look into HEO job vacancies, I think.

Any tips for transitioning from EO to HEO level, please?

This depends so much on the the of department.

I've worked in two contrasting departments - one where an EO was one of the higher grades and not much chance for promotion out of it without transferring
Another where EOs were one of the lowest grades but a lot of them and a lot of scope for promotion.
But in both departments it would be rare to get promotion after just a year or so. More usually maybe 5/6/7 years?

Thanks, Green - that’s really helpful to know.

I’m in one of the bigger departments. In the department, EO is more or less the lowest grade, although there are a few AO posts.

It really depends what sort of job you're in. If you work in an operational area the move from EO to HEO can see you moving from line managing 10 staff to 50 or more across a number of sites. Some HEO roles have no line management responsibilites. The move from EO to HEO in some jobs can be huge and in others not so much.

As you're based in London you have a great opportunity to look at a range of jobs across all departments. Some are much more interesting than others! I would avoid DExUE however...

If you haven't already sign up to CS Jobs for HEO vacancies and see which posts interest you. Look at the person and skills specification to see what you could possibly do.

The CS application process is changing shortly from competency based to skills based and I don't know enough about it to advise you.

I'll be honest. EO to HEO in that timescale is a bit quick but you may have applied for a post below your experience and skillset in which case progression would be the right thing.

G7 here looking towards G6, having started as a Faststreamer in 2009 and then a promotion after 4 or 5 year long rotations (plus a year off for maternity leave recently).

EO to HEO in a year can be perfectly possible, but it depends on both you and the department. Does your current department have any internal talent/development schemes? Mine has just launched one for EO/HEO/SEO for example, as an alternative to the FS. There are often opportunities if you fall into a minority group as well (which includes women, due to a lack of them in the senior civil service).

No faststream - AO to G7 in 14 years (with 2 periods of mat leave - a year each).

I went relatively quickly to EO and then again to HEO then stalled for a number of years (incl. Mat leaves). Mostly due to confidence knocked by time out but on plus side really benefitted from a variety of roles, gaining different skills along the way (all big department policy jobs but different stages - policy development, drafting legislation, implementation). So then once at SEO went quickly up to G7. My experience was I benefit from building skills and consolidating over time. I've also developed a great network and have a solid reputation. (And have regained my confidence as a result. I know I'm good at my job and don't worry I'll be "found out" anynore!)

But plenty people around me are learning on the job and doing fine!

I went in as an AO, was promoted to EO in 14 months, took maternity leave a year after that but then took a lateral move shortly after because I was in a London private office and it was just too much with an infant. Got TDA to HEO for a year 2 years later then became a substantive HEO. So I guess 6 years AO to HEO. I had a choice between an SEO application and voluntary severance to pursue a lifelong dream and I took severance but I still second guess myself for leaving after 10 years! 😂

Thanks so much, everyone! Your posts are all so useful and interesting. If anyone else has any further information to add about their own experiences, I’d be really interested to read it :)

Been in CS for 16 years. Started as a casual AO for 6 months then got a permanent AO position. Stayed as AO for 5 years (ish) then was promoted to EO in a team leader role. Currently a substantive EO in a different department although I have been on TDA to HEO for 18 months. Have just submitted my application for the role I am currently in (finally the role is being made permanent) and am waiting for the results of an interview for an SEO position in yet another department.

HEO here, have been for a few years. I joined as an HEO. My situation is a little unusual as I am a technical specialist so paid more than most at my grade. I can't find jobs at SEO that will match my salary, and certainly not other HEO jobs (I won't say where I work sorry).

Get yourself a coach or a mentor - you can access them through Civil Service Learning. Will really help you focus and push yourself to HEO.

joined as an HEO 12 years ago in my mid-20's on a big graduate recruitment drive, still an HEO! Most of my friends who joined at the same time and are similar age to me have moved up to SEO within the last couple of years. One or two have got G7 roles, and one is a G5 but she was ambitious and was a G7 within 4 years of joining.

I think EO is quite a tricky grade, in operational environments it can be a good grade to get lots of experience of case work roles with some autonomy, or you could be managing a team, but in other areas like policy it will be quite a junior support role. I found it tough when I moved departments a couple of years ago as operational work didn't translate over that well,and my new post seemed very high level in comparison with previous roles so I'm glad I moved to gain a different perspective.

I always advise new starters to get involved in extra corporate projects, staff networks etc to raise their profile and increase the range of skills you're practising, which will help develop your competencies (although as noted by a pp not sure how this will be measured with the new success profiles).

I would suggest scoping how likely new jobs at a higher grade are materialise in your current department, is there a restructure pending, is staff turnover high, these situations may give an opportunity to move up the ranks more quickly. If not then consider moving sideways to another department to get gain experience in a totally different role

if your face doesn't fit, move on! I've seen people who are perfectly capable get passed over for promotion because networking and having a good reputation is more likely to get you small projects, temporary promotion etc which gives you an edge for permanent roles.

I'm pretty happy at my level as I've always looked for a job rather than a grade, but I'm lucky in the North where I live my wage goes a long way.

I'm in the Northern Ireland Civil Service and until this thread I didn't realise the grades where much different here.

I started as a temporary AO in 2013, made permanent May 2017 and up to EO2 in March 2018.

We have (grades in order) AA, AO, EO2, EO1, Staff Officer, Deputy Principle, Grade 7 and up.

There are very any promotion boards here. The last AO-EO2 boards was the first one in 10 years. I got very lucky getting promoted EO2.

What grade/level would HEO and SEO be in NI?

HEO and SEO are the steps from EO to G7.

I started as an AO 10 years ago, a year later promoted straight to HEO. About 4 years later promoted to SEO and then G7 a year ago.

Best advice is to get experience of different areas, projects etc. Recruitment will be changing in 2019. Look for temporary cover opportunities to get experience of HEO work.

Thanks so much again, everyone. This is all so helpful.

Thanks @jagerPlease. I'm amazed at the difference and now wondering how anything is done with 2 grades instead of 4 😂 EO2 - DP are extremely different grades here.

Any other stories of your experiences, please? Would be great to hear as many as possible :)

Hi OP, it sounds like you may be in the same dept as me? One of the bigger depts but not HMRC or DWP? I don’t know anyone who is below an EO in my dept so may be the same as me! Getting from EO to HEO seems to be quite easy in my dept, due to there not being a massive need for EOs and there always being vacancy’s for HEOs. Finding a mentor or talking to HEOs in your team about ‘what makes a good HEO’ is a good start. But when you feel as though you could go for a promotion, i’d just apply for it!

Hi Guacamole :) ooh not sure - we could be in the same department. Thanks so much - that’s a really good idea about finding a mentor and talking to current HEOs about their roles.

The other thing that I’m curious about is the Civil Service’s move from using competencies to the new ‘success profiles’ for applications. There is some helpful guidance online about success profiles, but it would be interesting to hear what you all think about them. I’m confused about how the strengths area of success profiles will be mesured, in particular.

I joined an io (so specialist heo) I've been with civil service 9 years and in that time had two maternity leaves and worked part time. Nearly got made redundant and picked up another heo role in a diff dept. Once my two were school age I transferred to another dept as an io and 3 years later I have been promoted to a sio role.

Could I add to this? I'm thinking of career changing into the CS - is it worth it to go for the fast stream at 33 or would I be better off just applying directly and not taking the salary drop?

I joined at 17 as an AA, promoted to AO in a year then around 8 years to EO. Had three children. Became a single parent. Joined the fast stream via the inservice route at 40 (!) G7 at 45. Now looking at G6 roles at 50.

it’s always worth applying for the fast stream, as a brand you get a lot of investment. There is no age bar, you bring experience and a different perspective.

Joined as SEO in 2011. Took 2012 off to go on maternity leave. Then returned and moved to G7 in 2014, G6 in 2016 and SCS (G5) in the summer. I was thinking of moving for my next promotion but as I will have another baby in the summer I will stay and see how I get on.

I’m a G6 but a lawyer so maybe don’t count! Success profiles are a way of enabling you to talk about what you’ve actually done whereas competencies was very much what do you show the potential to be able to do. I never liked it and hope the new system is better. What’s your degree? Could you move to anything specialist like law? We have plenty of EO caseworkers and the like, and then HEO fairly soon thereafter. SEO is a bit of a dead grade, perfectly possible to go from HEO to G7. You need to look to do work outside your grade, jump to get a TP to cover a mat leave or something. Keep on CS jobs all the time,