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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU not to want to hold hands with a strange man in the park?

78 replies

Twiceover · 23/10/2018 12:54

I was in the park yesterday with DCs. They were off playing and I was sitting on a bench in the sun mumsnetting.

An elderly man sits down next to me and starts chatting. I don't particularly want to talk to him - I was enjoying the relative peace and quiet - but I think I may as well be polite. We chat for a while, small talk about his family, where we live, what football team he supports etc. All perfectly pleasant.

DC come over - they want to leave. 'Lovely to meet you'd, I say to the man. 'Lovely to meet you too, I'm Dennis' And he puts out his hand to shake. 'Twiceover', I say and shake his hand. I go to take my hand back. He holds onto it. Awks. He continues to talk to me, now holding my hand. And I...do nothing. Except squirm in embarassment and try and end the conversation as soon as I can so I can escape.

All in all a complete non-incident. Nothing happened. I wasn't upset, just mildly embarrassed and irritated.

And yet now I think why didn't I say something? I wasnt happy with him continuing to hold my hand. I'm generally pretty assertive and direct. I could easily have politely said 'please let go of my hand ' or even quite abruptly 'give me back my hand!' I didn't want to be rude or upset him so I just sat there nodding and smiling politely while he held my hand. But why did my need to be polite and not embarrass him trump my own need not to have my boundaries crossed? Why was I so worried about upsetting someone who was invading my personal space?

So WIBU not to say anything or was it so inconsequential it would have been odd to call him out on it?

OP posts:
velourvoyageur · 23/10/2018 14:34

What a compassionless and censorious people we're becoming.

Yes, indeed. He displayed very little compassion in relation to the OP's discomfort.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 23/10/2018 14:35

Making it something huge would be calling police,or logging it with 101
Posting on mn isn’t making it huge,it’s simply musing it over seeking other pov

Mishappening · 23/10/2018 14:36

Oh gosh! - an elderly old man held your hand a little longer than you might have wished when shaking hands with you - hold the front page!

Honestly - we do not have to spend our whole lives on the assertiveness bandwagon. We could just be kind - as indeed you were. Good for you.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 23/10/2018 14:37

Is it relevant that he was elderly?what if he’d been 30?

ReanimatedSGB · 23/10/2018 14:40

I think the fact that OP felt uncomfortable makes it more likely that this was a creepy fucker who knew she was uncomfortable but wanted to push her boundaries anyway.
OP said he was with his family, so not some lonely old pitiful gentleman who'd had no human contact in weeks.

I'm not sure yelling at him would have improved the situation, but I think you picked up the creeper vibe from him, OP, and that's why it bothered you.

fizzthecat1 · 23/10/2018 14:59

What a compassionless and censorious people we're becoming

Hmm Old men are just men who have been alive for longer, they're not a different species and infantilising them isn't appropriate.

What age would this be unreasonable? 50? 60? Well why not 65? Do you think he'd have held a mans hand? Probably not.

fizzthecat1 · 23/10/2018 15:01

I'm thinking there is probably a generational difference in the people on this thread who think OP is in the wrong or the old man is.

It reminds me of the Daily Mail comments everytime there's a sexual harassment story and all the comments attaching the woman etc. It's quite sad really.

Inmyvestandpants · 23/10/2018 15:05

The age thing is relevant imo, because a man in his eighties is less likely to have a sexual motive than a man in his thirties (we are talking about sexual motives here aren't we? That's why it's so bad). In the same way, a small child holding your hand for ages would cause you no discomfort, because you would know that their motivation was completely innocent.

I used to work in a pub and the local dirty old men would congregate there in an evening. They were always saying things to the women like "If I were thirty years younger...." and leering at us. It wasn't pleasant and I did occasionally tell them to back off in no uncertain terms, but it would have been far more threatening to have a man in his thirties saying the same sort of thing (obvs not "If I were twenty years younger" - they'd have been at school - but making comments about how attractive they found me).

BookMeOnTheSudExpress · 23/10/2018 15:05

I would read it as being that awkward moment when you've shaken hands-goodbye with someone, but then the conversation, for whatever reason, continues, and the person just doesn't think that the hand that was shaking needs to be removed iyswim?

It quite often happens here (Italy) because everyone shakes hands when they meet someone (or if they're good friends, they kiss) I was just thinking (as I read the thread) I'm going tutoring later, and it will be the dad at home, and he will shake my hand as I go in, and if he has something particular to tell me, the hand doesn't get released straightaway. (or if it's the mum, more rarely) the same.

Unless the man (whose age is irrelevant- although MN does like a frothy old person thread) had been creepy beforehand, which it doesn't sound like, then I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 23/10/2018 15:09

I think when it comes to situations like that in reality we can behave very different to our normal every day persona. It's all well and good people saying they would have done and this and that but they aren't you in that situation. It's unnatural to say " please let go of my hand I'm not comfortable " or whatever so we carry on squirming.

velourvoyageur · 23/10/2018 15:10

If the OP was male (and specified that they were a straight man), no one would be telling him to be kinder and put up with it (we are all respectful of the wish of a man to protect his straight man image), or that he is representative of a disintegrating social fabric. Assertion in men has always been accepted, there's been no change on the male side. It's because most men will kick up a fuss when they feel uncomfortable that we recognise their claims have weight and so they are allowed to be assertive. Women weren't supposed to complain so didn't, and so in the end we don't see them as feeling, judging beings, and if a rebel did kick up a fuss they'd be seen as overexaggerating, 'why can't you just be kind, there's no reason not to be!'. That doesn't mean that we are comfortable with it or that kindness is the appropriate response here though - clearly there is a reasonable alternative, because we see it accepted as male behaviour.
Then if you claim that our culture was generally more compassionate in the past, and your evidence for this is that 'people' are being more assertive, it's only because you notice women being more assertive, because there hasn't been a rise in men being so (i.e. men accepting physical contact from other men when they don't want it). Women are made to shoulder the responsibility for causing this supposedly negative inward turn towards, despite the fact that it's been present in the other half of the population all along Hmm We're not the keepers of social cohesion, don't put that on us.

fizzthecat1 · 23/10/2018 16:12

If I were thirty years younger...." and leering at us. It wasn't pleasant and I did occasionally tell them to back off in no uncertain terms, but it would have been far more threatening to have a man in his thirties saying the same sort

Really? Confused I worked in a Pub as well when I was 18 and found it much more gross and inappropriate when it was men 30-40 years older than men my age behaving like that. The guy in the park doesn't sound like a senial old man who doesn't know what he's doing. It that were the case that's different.

mirialis · 23/10/2018 16:33

'why can't you just be kind, there's no reason not to be!'

Is exactly what I would say to a man in that situation.

longwayoff · 23/10/2018 16:43

Velour, I think you'll find there has been a considerable rise in hate crime, intolerance and xenophobia since 2016. You will also find the majority of perpetrators are male. I don't consider these people to be confidently 'more assertive' because they are male but because they are loutish, ignorant yobs. I have not implied that women are responsible for a 'negative inward turn' in society nor do I believe that to be the case. I do believe we are becoming a compassionless and censorious society due to a variety of observable reasons that you fail to elucidate. With Donald Trump in the White House it shouldnt require further explanation.

Lizzie48 · 23/10/2018 16:45

I’m afraid being old doesn’t in itself make someone kind or no threat

I'm afraid this is very true. I was a victim of childhood SA at the hands of my F and others and one in particular was elderly. Abusers grow older and mostly don't change.

I'm obviously not saying that's the case here, he may just have wanted to be friendly, but he was inappropriate. And it would have made me very uncomfortable, because of my past, my boundaries are particularly important to me.

velourvoyageur · 23/10/2018 16:52

I'm confused sorry, what does hate crime etc have to do with the OP? Naturally I reacted to your post in the context of the thread.

Tawdrylocalbrouhaha · 23/10/2018 17:06

This happens to me a fair bit at work - it's always older people, generally not English, and I must say it tends to be the nice ones. I'm not a big fan, but I tend to just look on it in the same way as someone who won't stop chatting, rather than a physical overstep.

If I have to escape I use my other hand to cover their hand, and pat..pat...remove. "Lovely to meet you, have to go now".

justfloatingpast · 23/10/2018 17:11

I think it's a perfectly normal thing for an elderly man to do. It's happened to me a few times and there was certainly nothing pervy or intimidating about it. While I can understand it felt a bit odd or uncomfortable for you OP I am very glad you were nice enough to not pull your hand away.

Honestly, the views of some people on MN are really depressing and cruel. No wonder there's so many lonely elderly people around. Thankfully there are also people like the OP.

fizzthecat1 · 23/10/2018 17:17

Honestly, the views of some people on MN are really depressing and cruel. No wonder there's so many lonely elderly people around. Thankfully there are also people like the OP

OP made it clear he wasn't lonely, had lots of family around him. People are well within their rights to not want to be touched by a stranger.

justfloatingpast · 23/10/2018 17:22

This particular man mightn't have been lonely, but the general view that an elderly man holding onto your hand while he continues a conversation is a pervy old creep seems to apply with some posters regardless of who the man is with.
I know several elderly people (male and female) who do this, all lovely people, and I would hate to think of them being snubbed or pulled away from because of some of the views on here.

AllTakenSoRubbishUsername · 23/10/2018 17:36

What does twiceover mean? He might have been very lonely, and maybe he was saying thank you for being the only person to talk to him that day. I wouldn't be thinking any more of it.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 23/10/2018 17:37

You’re applying an equally cliched sterotype, all older adults are lovely.bless
No.people have behaviour, traits and characteristics that are favourable and unfavourable
One cannot Generalise that allows older adults are lonely,old dears
His behaviour made the op uncomfortable, that may have been purposeful.it May have been unwitting.we don’t know

MsLexic · 23/10/2018 17:38

He was just lonely and a twat. I was out with my partner teh other day and this man on the next table started talking to me. God knows what he was on about but I smiled and tried to be kind. I was so nervous that when I got u I knocked everything over hahaha! My partner thought it was an effing cheek and he was chatting me up. But it was bloody annoying.
One thing I really hated was once I was out with a man and two young men came up and forced me to give one of them a kiss... that still upsets me.
I normally give people a shove but I was worried as they were drunk.

velourvoyageur · 23/10/2018 17:38

I'm honestly glad you've only had good experiences, just, but I've coming from a place where in the past I have ignored my own discomfort many times in order to be friendly (inc. yes enduring unwanted physical contact) and had (often older) men completely ignore obvious hints I was putting out that they should stop, and it hasn't ended well. Do you really think that I'm being unnecessarily cruel if I decide that that isn't working for me anymore? How am I supposed to know if someone is one of the good ones or not simply by looking at them, or am I supposed to just take the risk?

MsLexic · 23/10/2018 17:39

PS just because men are old doesn't mean they do not have working willies.

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