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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Accessible toilet being changed to gender neutral loo

24 replies

Omega16 · 22/10/2018 12:45

I was at a meeting today in an office building that had changed the accessible toilet to gender neutral. Just can't get my head round this. Surely the accessible loo should be protected for those who need it. An additional one should be created to accommodate the gender neutral criteria. Please tell me I'm overthinking this or been on MN too long

OP posts:
BollocksToBrexit · 22/10/2018 12:46

YANBU But in the social pecking order disabled people are at the bottom.

WorraLiberty · 22/10/2018 12:49

Were there other accessible toilets available?

Omega16 · 22/10/2018 12:50

No, this was the only one.

OP posts:
Pepper123123 · 22/10/2018 12:56

It's definitely not okay.

Gender neutral toilets aren't an issue for me whatsoever. All disabled toilets are gender neutral, but by allowing anyone to use them, they're effectively taking away a facility for disabled people.

For a lot of people the point of the accessible toilets is that when their IBS or bladder/bowel issues flare up they have a bathroom that is hopefully not occupied.

Omega16 · 22/10/2018 13:09

This was definitely a gender neutral/ accessible loo rather than a gender neutral accessible loo.

OP posts:
ExplodedPeach · 22/10/2018 13:25

Personally I think it depends on what building its in and how many other facilities are available.

If there are enough toilets that having to wait is unheard of, there isn't anyone in the office who is physically disabled but there is a trans person, it seems like a sensible decision.
If queues for the toilet are common and there are people who can only use the accessible toilet, it's stupid.

lau888 · 22/10/2018 13:54

It sounds like the building is quite small with limited toilet facilities. I’d suggest keeping the toilet in question as the “accessibility toilet” and redesignating the other toilets as unisex. Presumably the toilet in question has features such as handrails or ground floor/ramp access for wheelchairs?

Willow789 · 22/10/2018 13:59

Accessible toilets are gender neutral anyway??? So what's the big deal

Willow789 · 22/10/2018 14:00

Also - where I used to work/where DH still works they have this. Literally causes no issues. Everyone happy with it, never a queue for it at all.

Ihopeyourcakeisshit · 22/10/2018 14:04

I think the big deal is that by allowing the toilets to become gender neutral anyone can use them,thus removing a disabled facility.

Omega16 · 22/10/2018 14:06

There was at least one physically disabled person working there. They rent out their meeting rooms, so have a lot of different people using the building.

OP posts:
Willow789 · 22/10/2018 14:09

Like I said - all disabled toilets at his company (across many sites in the uk) are also gender neutral. Never caused an issue - disabled people can still use them. To be honest, DH has said it's very rarely used by anybody who isn't disabled so it pretty much remains the same.

malmi · 22/10/2018 14:09

In many buildings the accessible toilet is not considered to be reserved for the sole use of those unable to use the other toilets, but available for anyone to use, although common courtesy dictates that those unable to use other toilets would get priority.

zzzzz · 22/10/2018 14:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blanchedupetitpois · 22/10/2018 14:10

Wasn’t it already gender neutral? Or were there male and female accessible loos and now they’re both gender neutral?

Unless the building has loads of space for a whole new loo and the company can afford a large renovation, this is surely the most sensible solution?

Figural · 22/10/2018 14:28

If it's a toilet marked with the stick figure wheelchair symbol - the international symbol of accessibility - whoever's dealing with this needs to be aware of the legalities.

That symbol's meaning under ISO Standard 7001, which deals with public information signs, is this (with my paraphrasing as I don't have my copy of the standard to hand):

With two exceptions, the symbol indicates that the designated area is mainly, but may not be wholly, accessible to someone in a wheelchair.

The two exceptions are when the symbol designates a toilet facility or a lift (elevator). In both those two cases the designated area, including all its services and facilities, are accessible to someone in a wheelchair.

And that's all that symbol says. It does not mean that the area designated is reserved for wheelchair users, or disabled people only. The facility is always unisex. The symbol is the colour it is because ISO 7001 symbols always are - think motorway signs - these are covered by the same standard.

As that symbol confirms that the designated space is unisex I personally think stating that it's a gender neutral area is unnecessary, and could lead to confusion and some arguments. It suggests to me that the person/people proposing this, don't actually know what that symbol means or the international agreements that govern it.

Also, it isn't a 'disabled toilet', it's an 'accessible toilet'. The need for accessibility is personal to the user and not for criticism by anyone else. Accessbility for one user might be the need for a space for a child in a buggy and nappy changing facilities; for another it could be help for a wheelchair user to transfer from a wheelchair to the toilet; for another it could because those toilets have, or should have, disposal bins suitable for incontinence pads and pants; for someone else it could be to be able to deal with a colostomy bag and to clean themselves as necessary.

The need is personal to the user and asking someone to justify their use of it is unacceptable, and in some cicumstances can be illegal, leading to a claim for discrimination and/or damages.

If this toilet does have that blue and white stick wheelchair symbol on it, don't remove it, but the management should get a copy of the standard and make copies of the relevant section available to anyone who queries it.

In my past employment I've had formal responsibility for ensuring that staff knew what the symbol meant and who was allowed to use the accessible toilets - everyone is.

Samcro · 22/10/2018 14:33

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3400150-to-think-that-trans-people-should-use-the-disabled-toilets

this was literally done a few days ago, do we really need another thread full of (it will be soon) disabled people being told to give up and shut up?

Omega16 · 22/10/2018 14:43

@Figural thank you, that's really interesting.

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 22/10/2018 15:04

Wasn’t it already gender neutral? Or were there male and female accessible loos and now they’re both gender neutral?

Unless I've misunderstood the OP. I think she's saying the loos are now accessible to people who claim to be gender neutral, but not necessarily disabled at all?

Notacluewhatthisis · 22/10/2018 15:47

Accessible toilets aren't exclusively for disabled people. And are gender neutral. So nothing has changed.

Bestseller · 22/10/2018 15:53

In most office buildings that don't employ many people, the accessible toilet is just that, accessible. I. E it's accessible for people with disabilities (of any gender) but not exclusively for their use.

We've recently had to prepare for a transgender student to join us. The original plan was to designate the accessible toilet as male/female/disabled but on checking, it already is.

ErickBroch · 22/10/2018 16:06

Sounds like they added a gender neutral thing onto it? They haven't stopped it being an 'accessible' toilet? People use these toilets all the time anyway if others are busy, I think YABU and creating a problem when there isn't one.

SillySallySingsSongs · 22/10/2018 16:11

this was literally done a few days ago, do we really need another thread full of (it will be soon) disabled people being told to give up and shut up?

Seems like it.

Those with disability are always at the bottom of the pile it seems. Angry

hazeyjane · 22/10/2018 16:21

People use these toilets all the time anyway if others are busy

I think this is kind of the point....if this toilet is the only toilet available for disabled people, who already have to put up with it being used by others when others are busy....if it is also the designated 'gender neutral' toilet (to provide a space for people who feel uncomfortable using the sex specific toilets?) then the disabled persons only choice of toilet has become the busiest bloody toilet on the block! (...and if there is also a baby change in there, as is often the case, then that makes it even busier!)

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