Was I unreasonable to redecorate?

[wlevrta]

We have been in our rental property for almost three years.

However, we will be moving out in January/February.

We have redecorated the rental and I'm just hoping the landlord is going to be okay with it.

For context. The landlord bought the property as it was and made no improvements himself when he purchased it. The dining room wall was bright green! There was gaps between the laminate and the skirting board in the hallway. The bathroom taps were rubbish and water didn't come out very well. The toilet flusher didn't work properly.

It's not his home that he rents. He has numerous properties he rents out and it's his full time job.

Everything we have done to the property, imo, has improved it and everything has been done neutral.

We have put in a brand new bathroom and flooring.

Painting in the rest of the house, etc.

Do you think this will be a problem? He seems like a reasonable guy

The only way you’ll know if he is OK with what you have done is by asking him! The context is irrelevant, if the contract says that you must not decorate without consent and you break the contract then he would be within his rights to with-hold your deposit. Hopefully, as you appear to have improved the property (in your opinion), he won’t! You seem to think he is a reasonable person so why did you not ask permission at the time?

you break the contract then he would be within his rights to with-hold your deposit.

A few people have said this but I don't think it's quite true. My understanding is a landlord can't simply keep the entire deposit because some term in the tenancy agreement was broken. They can only use money from the deposit to pay for actual costs.

So in OP's case, if the landlord wants to repaint the wall and replace the unauthorised bathroom, they may use money from the deposit for that. But if the landlord leaves the decor and bathroom as they are and tries keep the whole deposit anyway, that's not lawful. Although a lot of cheeky fucker landlords will try it anyway.

Simply leave it as you found it - reverse all those improvements! That'll learn Mister Lazee Landlord.........also it'll prevent him doubling the rent for the next tenants claiming "and I've refurbished all this very recently - just for you!"

A lot of people are stating authoritatively that the OP has broken her tenancy agreement. As the OP hasn't posted her tenancy agreement no one has the faintest idea if that's the case.

Secondly, they'd sue her? For what, exactly? Assuming the agreement itself doesn't set out a remedy for breaching the term we're implying she's breached, you're presumably suing for some kind of financial loss as a result of her actions. I'm no lawyer but are you actually proposing the LL is going to go to court and put a sum of money on ripping out a perfectly good new bathroom and replacing it with a shitty old one from a skip? And that a judge isn't going to laugh in his face?

OP you obviously shouldn't have done this (for your own sake!) but I really don't think it's the affront to the LL's dignity that the level of territorial outrage on this thread is suggesting. Don't panic. If the LL is the sort of person to buy a dump and let it out without attempting to do it up, he's not going to be upset that you've increased its value for him.

Normally tenancy agreements have clauses about what you can and can't do with the property, so it would be highly unusual if hers didnt.

As for suing, it really depends on how well the work was done. It's not about the old stuff as such, more if she has caused any damage through poor plumbing, damage to walls or floor etc.

On the face of what she's posted I would assume the landlord would be fine with the work if it looks in good order and he inspects it fully now she has explained further. I suspect the issue here is more the cheeky fuckery of ripping someone's bathroom out and replacing it Without their permission, replacing their flooring, painting their walls, again without their permission.

I'm curious as to why she didn't ask him though. What's occurred here is fairly rare.

Oh God, we moved on to suing? Why do threads always end up getting hysterical? Is it because people are really racking their brains for anything new to contribute?

You'd have to be the cheekiest fucker on the face of the earth to sue someone for upgrading your rental property for you. We read the thread. The flat was in poor condition when she moved in. It now has new flooring and a modern bathroom. Whether they show it or not, the landlords will be thrilled.

To put this into perspective, I recently hired a room for one night. The company took £200 deposit and will return once inspection completed. There was also a big written list of rules. So, why do you think that renting more long term is any different. You don't own the property !

All this hysterical nonsense about invalidating the insurance is precisely that. Do any of you seriously think that in the (unlikely) event the bathroom improvement causes any problems down the line, the landlord would be stupid enough to disclose it was unauthorised work commissioned by a tenant? Do catch yourselves on.

If it were me I would be suing you for ripping out my bathroom, and making you fork out the cost of one that was a similar quality!

Yes that really does sound like the best option 🙄. Vindictive much?

And it's so easy to find a peach bathroom suite with a non flushing toilet, isn't it?

Actually peach bathroom suites are much more expensive than white ones. And would cost on average several hundred pounds.

New ones might be, not 1970s versions with limescale encrusted taps! Very disingenuous, Bluntness! You're going to tell me non flushing loos cost a premium next.

The cost of it, the insurance, etc etc is all irrelevant. The fact is that you cannot go into someone else's property, even when you're paying rent, and rip out something that belongs to them and replace it with something else, even if that something else is an improvement in your opinion.

In this scenario I suspect the LL, who doesn't seem to want to spend money on the house, will be fine with a new bathroom being installed into his rental property at no cost to him. But if the existing bathroom furniture was of a reasonable standard, just rather old, I suspect most LLs would be hoping mad about it.

For instance, if the OP has ripped out an irreplaceable cast iron bath that the LL wanted to keep in the house because it's of good quality and replaced it with a thin cheap plastic one. The LL would likely be pretty pissed off. One person's old rubbish is another person's beautiful piece of vintage furniture.

The only person who can answer the OP's question is the LL.

To the poster saying the LL can’t just keep the deposit: this is true but he could say he wants to “make good” the property and change it back to how it was. The costs of this would exceed any deposit.

To the poster asking how on earth we could know if OP has broken her contract: in 20 years in the Lettings industry I’m yet to see a tenancy agreement without a clause stating the tenant needs permission to make any alterations to the property.

New ones might be, not 1970s versions with limescale encrusted taps! Very disingenuous, Bluntness! You're going to tell me non flushing loos cost a premium next

The point is blue lady, if she has to replace it, because it belonged to him, it was a fixture in the flat, and she ripped it out and binned it without his permission, finding an old one cheaply won't be that easy. She may have to get a new one and spend upwards of seven hundred quid on it.

Yup. And pigs might fly. Bet the inventory - always assuming there even is one - doesn't stipulate peach bath and unflushable loo.

Bluelady, inventories do describe that and their condition. They also always include photos.

I didn’t realise old cast iron baths were so rare and expensive, we have one and would be lucky to get a tenner from a scrap metal dealer for it.

I had to pay to have an avocado cast iron bath taken away.

Ridiculous to say inventories say this, that or the other. Some go into great detail, others don't. Some have pictures, some don't. Some rental properties - shock, horror - have no inventory at all.

Very slightly off tooic @wlevrta but that gas hob surely didn’t pass the safety inspection. I assume all gas appliances are inspected by a registered engineer once every year and that your landlord has provided you with a copy of the certificates? If not, he has broken the law and this might give you something to retort with if he is arsey about you replacing the bathroom (which I agree you absolutely should not have done without permission but what’s done is done).

@flobella it's been like that since we moved in but we have had a gas safety inspection this year and the guy that did the inspection made a note of it and even tried to fix it to no avail but I and ll received certificate anyway

You need to read your rental agreement. No-one can tell you what is in it except by reading it. I let property and in the agreements tenants are required to paint internally after a certain period of time. One tenant has replaced old carpets that we intended to replace for her this year with laminate. Didn't ask first but we are fine with it. Can't answer for your bathroom or your landlord though. Have you got photos of before and after? Might be helpful if there is any comeback from the landlord. You say you hope to move next year - this is not a certainty so why not just keep your heads down for the time being and see whether you do or not? Why rock the boat until you absolutely have to? I inspect regularly. Surely your landlord checks the property? Is there an inspection clause in the tenancy agreement? While I can't see the landlord objecting if you have really improved the property, if he does object but has failed to inspect you might be able to argue that his own negligence was a contributing factor.

Have you decorated it in a fairly neutral way?

I can't see he'd complain if you have.

FWIW I can completely understand why you've done it. If you're staying somewhere you're calling home for a while, why would you want to live in a shithole?

I don't understand why people have said you've wasted money as you've had the enjoyment of living in a home decorated and furnished to your taste. A standard white bathroom suite isn't that expensive, assuming that's what you bought.

If you'd put a new suite in a house you owned you wouldn't be taking it with you.

People who live in the same rented home for years who doggedly refuse to any decorating just because they feel the LL will profit are just cutting their nose off to spite their face. Who wants to live like that?

Obviously, people on short lets or who can't afford to do it wouldn't be able or want to.

Good luck in your new home.

Please put us all out of our misery (hovering to see what LL says!!)