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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

school demanding £20 for books

116 replies

twentypounds · 16/10/2018 18:38

Is this reasonable - gcse study guides.

My niece is in year 10 and was told she had to bring in £20 for some books.

OP posts:
aquietlifeplease · 17/10/2018 07:58

I think the problem is not so much the expectation that as parents we will pay for certain study aids for our children it's the fact that the school has taken it upon itself to tell a child off for not having access to the money to pay for those items. Let's face it, it shouldn't be beyond any adult to think that possibly the family can't afford the books and even if they can if the patents don't want to there is not a great deal a child can do about it?

PattiStanger · 17/10/2018 08:04

Caprisunirange - I used to be a governor on a finance committee and believe me the LA at the time definitely did not know how to do school accounts with accrual. It was a while ago and might have changed now but the information the school had was very poor.

Caprisunorange · 17/10/2018 08:07

Ours is accrual accounting although they may not realise it as they’re not very smart. However we are holding a very large accrual so I know this to be the case.however saying they don’t know how to do it is just another example of the poor information and management in schools. That’s basic basic stuff

I am professionally qualified as an accountant with 25 years experience, many in audit- I know exactly what I’m looking for. However the kind of challenges coming up here are exactly the ones I’m seeing from the committee / school staff who are financially illiterate (ie example of boiler replacement - which is capital expense anyway)

This just further cements my concerns about what’s going on in (some, many?) schools tbh. It’s a scandal.

mumsastudent · 17/10/2018 08:21

there are many schools running in the red (confirmed by someone I know who works in county education finance & news on reputable sites) some money is ring fenced for specific parts ie debts (money owed being paid for it expenses such as servicing etc) for essential staff training, adaptions etc etc

pacer142 · 17/10/2018 08:22

I am professionally qualified as an accountant with 25 years experience, many in audit- I know exactly what I’m looking for. However the kind of challenges coming up here are exactly the ones I’m seeing from the committee / school staff who are financially illiterate (ie example of boiler replacement - which is capital expense anyway)

I'm the same and it really depresses and annoys me when dealing with charity/public sector bodies that they usually have such poor financial awareness/ability. It's usually because whoever recruits "accounts/finance managers" doesn't actually know what they're doing, so they end up with book-keepers at best, who havn't the faintest clue about proper accounting methods, nor cost control, nor forecasting - it's not surprise they're usually in a mess. Even worse are "finance director" appointments, like at our local council where they appointed a "finance director" who didn't even have basic book-keeping knowledge, yet alone any accounting qualifications.

Caprisunorange · 17/10/2018 08:24

Exactly what you say pacer. Without being arrogant they are lucky to have someone with my skills volunteer but I don’t think I can hack it anymore. Whenever you ask a question everyone looks at each other blankly and denies knowledge even though they are supposed to be repsonsible

sashh · 17/10/2018 08:25

OP

Is your dn a pp pupil? Is she classed as 'looked after'?

If they are then legally you are trusting the school to spend the pp on her, you have a right to request that money for you to spend as you see fit.

They don't actually give you a wad of dosh for you to buy anything, there are obviously strings attached. Schools are so underfunded they are terrified of parents asking for the pp money. Looked after children can get get money for activities outside school.

A short email asking that they allocate pp money for the guides or you will be considering applying for it your self to buy the books should do it.

AmazingGrace16 · 17/10/2018 08:43

The school will not be forcing your dn to buy books. But like other posters have said, if she wants a copy of a revision guide she will have to pay for one. That's standard.

The only way around it if you can't afford it is to explain it to the school. Regardless of if finances are private or not. A discrete email requesting that the information doesn't go further could open up that channel of communication with the school.

The other option is you don't say anything and she misses the revision guides. She's probably been told repeatedly to bring the money in before the school run out of guides tbh.

LivLemler · 17/10/2018 09:07

These threads always amaze me. In Ireland parents provide all books and stationery, to the tune of hundreds a year in secondary school and probably not much less in primary.

Provision in the UK is incredible, imo. The scandal isn't that schools ask for £20 towards educational materials, but that so many families struggle to get £20 together. The proportion of people on the breadline is horrific.

NearlySchoolTimeAgain · 17/10/2018 09:16

It’s a real hassle for teachers to arrange the purchase of these books, take payments and hand out books.

They’re doing it to get the correct books to students at the best prices.

If any student had said to me they couldn’t afford them we would have sorted them out with a copy PP or not. But we’re not mind readers and I think if parents can afford a contribution they should make one. For optional but useful items.

LoniceraJaponica · 17/10/2018 09:18

I agree Liv. People shouldn't be living like this. It's shameful.

Maldives2006 · 17/10/2018 09:22

What about those parents who have to prioritise food, petrol to get to work, bills all of the other things that are essential.

OutPinked · 17/10/2018 09:39

Ask for the list of books and source the books yourself, it will undoubtedly work out cheaper.

I’m a FE English teacher and never expect my students to source their own, I photocopy whatever is needed and give them it. However I do give them the list at the start of the year so they have the option and most books can be found for under £5 on eBay/amazon.

tillytrotter1 · 17/10/2018 10:07

These sound like revision guides. Do you have any friends with children a years or so older who want to get rid of their old ones? Don't go too far back as the syllabii change. I used to ask if Year 11 wanted to return their revision guides to help the next group,
Most are pretty cheap, they're sold in Waterstones etc., but the school will get them cheaper by bulk.

tillytrotter1 · 17/10/2018 10:14

Just had a look elsewhere, the CGP range used to be the best and the cheapest. I recall when they first started, their Maths books were handwritten and in black and white, how they've developed!!
There is also masses of revision material on-line if you don't want to buy the books.

LoniceraJaponica · 17/10/2018 10:17

Another option is if you are friendly with someone who has managed to buy the books. There is a scratch off bit on the first page which gives you a code to access the book online. It can only be used once though.

I found buying them from school to be the cheapest option because they bought them in bulk. And the school do not make a profit out of selling them. They are just providing a service.

dontknowwhattodo80 · 17/10/2018 10:18

DS1 has just started his GCSE's, we've got a list of about £30 worth of books that are recommended. They definitely aren't essential. We're able to buy them as and when we want so I'm going to order a couple a month

Piggywaspushed · 17/10/2018 10:31

capri : then you need to offer your excellent financial skills properly to the school you serve as a governor. Presumably that is why you are on the finance committee. Does your school not have an accountancy firm audit once a year??

I am wondering what motivated you to be a governor: it seems to be to criticise, But I am sure it isn't in reality.

Howvere, I don't belive this is why OP's school want families to pay for revision guides. I am sure that comes from other pressures and anxieties.

Caprisunorange · 17/10/2018 10:43

Don’t be ridiculous. Isn’t that exactly what I’m doing, offering my expertise to the school? However it’s not my role to somehow make them finically literate when they’re not, or demand a better finance service from the LA when they get the same as everyone else. Are you serious or just niave?

And the audit? Do you know what auditors do? Well I’ll tell you what they don’t do, make people spend the budgets the haven’t spent Hmm that’s not exactly their remit.

Why should everyone else do it apart from the headteacher and SLt who Do, you know, actually have it in their job description to do so?

pacer142 · 17/10/2018 10:46

I found buying them from school to be the cheapest option because they bought them in bulk. And the school do not make a profit out of selling them.

Yep, our son's school provided them at about a 50% discount compared with RRP, which was far cheaper than even Amazon/Ebay for new. The publishers give very generous discounts to schools for bulk purchases. If a school really is charging RRP, then they're either making a profit, or people paying full price are paying that so others who can't afford them can have them as a freebie.

pacer142 · 17/10/2018 10:54

then you need to offer your excellent financial skills properly to the school you serve as a governor

I was a school governor for a year. That's a wasted year I'll never get back. Half the people didn't contribute anything - just nodding heads. The other half (SLT, county advisor, etc) made lots of presentations about what they were planning and it was clear they just wanted everyone to rubber stamp their plans - no proper debate/discussion was encouraged. If anyone (usually me) tried to bring up any new topic, it was always the same response - not enough time today, we'll put it on the agenda for a future meeting. There was once a really interesting item that was quite controversial and for once, a lively debate with differing views - after two hours of debate, it was time to vote - the majority was to oppose the proposal - then, after all that, the HT and county rep said that it would have to go ahead anyway because it was county policy - so a completely wasted two hours debating something that we had no say over anyway. I resigned in disgust after that - just a pointless waste of time when it was clear they were just pretending that things were decided by governors.

Piggywaspushed · 17/10/2018 10:58

capri, I am going to step away from this argument because it is neither relevant nor helpful. Clearly, I am a governor in a better managed school than yours ,where the bursar, SLT and the chair of the finance committe hold all spending to account.

I

PattiStanger · 17/10/2018 11:12

Ask for the list of books and source the books yourself, it will undoubtedly work out cheaper

Where outpinked? Where exactly have you found GCSE revision guides cheaper than those offered by the school? I don't have money to waste and have looled all over for guides cheaper than the school sells them for and I just can't find them. Luckily I can afford to get them but for my younger DC who will no doubt have different syllabuses I'd like to find a cheaper place if I can.

From memeory the school sells the up todate guides for about £3 per subject which adds up over every subject, where are they cheaper than that?

MammaCee25 · 17/10/2018 11:14

That is so bad! I didnt have to pay anything at school, im 21 now. Say No..

PattiStanger · 17/10/2018 11:22

Saying no isn't the best thing to do though, the DC needs the guides to give her the best chance withe her gcses, what needs to be done is to find a solution with the school.

Paying for revision guides is fairly standard now, parents/carers need to work with schools, saying that they didn't pay for them in the past get no one anywhere, things move on that's the way of the world. Revision guides didn't even exist when I was at school but I'd be pretty daft to not get them for my DC because of that.

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