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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what YOU would do to help save the NHS?

999 replies

TamiTayorismyparentingguru · 15/10/2018 18:40

I don’t care if you’re an HCP or not, I don’t care who you vote for, I don’t care what you think about Brexit - all opinions welcome.

Opinions on practical suggestions on how to save the NHS only though.

Our local hospital is getting worse and worse with regards to staff shortages and waiting lists getting longer and longer. I will say that our GP is really great and we’ve never really had a problem with getting appointments etc, but as soon as you are referred to the hospital things go massively downhill. (We did have a GP misdiagnose/miss DH’s cancer which was pretty shit - but I wouldn’t say that was a particular problem with the system - more just one of those unfortunate things that happens, that really shouldn’t happen, but that are just a matter of course.)

The hospital is a different story though - wait lists for some departments are insane (current wait time for an initial cataracts appointment is 42 weeks and then up to 18m for treatment, paediatric dermatology is a min of 30weeks, paediatric podiatry is approx 30weeks also. I have been on a wait list for max fax for 14mths so far. I also had an 8week wait for an appointment at the breast clinic after seeing the GP with a noticeable lump.)

DH has also had to fight for every single appointment since his cancer treatment last year - instead of the 4-weekly appointments he’s meant to have had, most of his appointments have been 7-8 weeks apart and have been cancelled at the last minute (sometimes just an hour before) at least 4 times in the last year.

It’s awful and yet I do trust that the doctors, nurses, receptionists etc etc are all doing everything they possibly can.

What’s the solution?

OP posts:
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5
70isaLimitNotaTarget · 21/10/2018 20:21

On the subject of sick leave , how many times does a poster get adviced "Get the GP to sign you off" for X days/weeks.

Working for the NHS it isn't easy to get sick leave , yes you can SElf Certifcate but there are "Trigger Points" which will result in a visit to Occ Health.

Obviously things like flu (proper flu not a cold) even with the flu jab, or D&V , shingles , things which are potentially harmful to your patients , render you unfit for work.
But there is always the knowledge that "who will do the job" and often we work when we really shouldn't.

As posted before , anyone who wants to come and work for the NHS, train up and crack on.
I get people say to me "Oh I couldn't do your job" , I think most of them are admiring but who knows ?

Graphista · 21/10/2018 20:25

"If more NHS doctors were full time, the waiting lists would be shorter and there'd be less need for people to go private." Exactly!

Witchy - most ill health aside possibly from genetic issues are "self inflicted" few people truly lead a healthy life. Many don't eat healthily (and weight is NOT the only indicator - I've known slim people who rarely eat a vegetable or unprocessed meat!), drink too much alcohol, too much caffeine, smoke, aren't active enough or the right way, live in areas of high pollution, work too long hours, don't sleep enough, don't take care of their personal hygiene inc dental hygiene, don't always practise safer sex... That's the human condition.

Re "don't care for elderly rellies" - well of course first off that's not true for all families. In mine we were able (in one case with A LOT of juggling) to care for our elderly rellies, but this is becoming harder when you consider UC policies, how long people are being expected to work for now, that families are sometimes needing to move well away from "home" to find work, to afford housing. Also not everyone is suited to caring! It's a very challenging role and "unqualified" family carers (I put unqualified in quotes cos quite frankly most of them their knowledge of their caree is PhD level!) are not supported or funded very well.

There's also individual issues - eg like hell will I ever be a carer for my dad. He was/is a violent, abusive alcoholic who also sa me. That's never going to happen. But the nurses who see a very sick, frail old man when he's in hospital won't get that.

Nasty abusive people become nasty abusive old people.

As someone who worked in elderly care I realised pretty early on that included in the mix of patients and residents were some lovely people who were just unlucky in that their families were deceased and maybe they'd not been able to have DC or never married etc, some whose families cared but were unsuited to or unable to care for them for a variety of reasons - but there was also a significant number who'd treated their families like shit when they were younger, were generally nasty even abusive people that nobody gaf about! More than once I pulled up members of staff critical of the families of these patients (it tended to be the younger members of staff who had loving families and not yet the life experience to know not everyone's families were)and reminded them they didn't necessarily know the history. One poor woman used to visit her father twice a week and every time he did nothing but berate and criticise her, after an occasion where he actually whacked her with his crutch in my presence (he didn't know I was there) I told him off and ended up patching her up (he'd broken the skin) upon which she said basically "this is nothing he used to batter hell out of me". And yet the next week there she was. So sometimes the reason they're not caring for their families is their own safety and sanity - and this is not unusual.

Plus of course some can be violent as a result of various conditions - don't underestimate how strong some elderly folk still are! Of course not their fault but should families really be putting themselves - inc kids - at risk out of duty?

Helena's point is also true, people's motives are called into question too.

"I work in another public sector where there is six months' sick pay. The way people are suddenly fit for a phased return on the day their six months' pay ends is nothing short of a miracle." Doesn't surprise me.

"Stopping consultants from doing private work wouldn't necessarily increase capacity in the NHS as many of them would leave. It would also mean that people needing procedures not available on the NHS would have to go abroad for them." Stopping them from doing it while being an nhs employee is certainly possible. There would have to be planning to ensure those who left to go into private practice were replaced, and then there'd be consultants in the private sector for those who can afford and choose this. I'd prefer Drs who were committed to their nhs patients. There's also been issues with Drs using their position within the nhs to acquire private patients ("you need X treatment which you'll wait Z months/years for on nhs/nhs doesn't cover BUT I do it via my private practice and you already know and trust me" which needs stamped on imo! It's deeply unethical imo.

"It would be nice if (at least) the senior doctors recognised that they are actually on a pretty good wicket compared to the vast majority of people, many of whom work harder and longer. Their pay and conditions have been retained (with good reason - major doctor shortages being one) whilst many services for patients have been cut to the bone." Absolutely!!

lovethebluebells · 21/10/2018 20:27

Get rid of lots of managers and commissioning departments to pay nurses the money they deserve. Stop doing the same commissioning work four times separately for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and coming up with different answers to what drugs they will/ won't pay for. Fund medical degrees to save students paying tuition fees.

Bluelady · 21/10/2018 20:36

Graphista, commitment to NHS patients and private practice aren't incompatible. Most consultants care equally for both sets of patients.

The attack on doctors' pay really makes me angry. Some doctors literally hold lives in their hands, they train for a minimum of a decade and the commitment of many is amazing. Without skilled doctors my life would have drawn to a close over 40 years ago, that makes them priceless in my book.

mumto2babyboys · 21/10/2018 20:38

NHS boss brands the Welsh health system broken
dailym.ai/2CxaqSP

OhTheRoses · 21/10/2018 20:40

My GP practice. Huge - 10 partners, 10 salaried GP's. Not. One. Works Full. Time. Average salary £79k pa. It's really not bad. One works 4 days, the rest 2 to 3. I earn well. I put in 60+ hours per week. Admittedly 6 figs, which would be slightly less than them for enormous stress and responsibility and if my staff were rude and if I received regular complaints there would be disciplinaries 20 minutes to pick up a phone. The GPs are aware and allow it because they think that's acceptable as far as the "unwashed" public are concerned.

It Is Not Rise up people, the NHS is funded by the people for the people. Not for self employed GPs with massive assets in the practice properties to take advantage of. In London and the SE at least. The self employed aspect alone is a national scandal. Every time they whinge they are choking on the gold Bevan fed them. Poor sods. My heart bleeds. Not

Bluelady · 21/10/2018 20:46

If that link is as I suspect to the Daily Mail I'm not opening it. Perhaps you could find a more savoury - and less biased - source.

mumto2babyboys · 21/10/2018 20:51

It's the daily mail copying directly from the Sunday times so get a grip

Bluelady · 21/10/2018 20:55

Got a grip, thanks. No way am I clicking on to that rag's website.

yourma555 · 21/10/2018 20:57

Educate people about not ringing 999 because you think you have a water infection and go to a&e because you have a sore throat! (I work in the NHS and these 2 things happened last week). Doctors/consultants shouldn't be able to just drop planned clinics when they feel like it to go on holidays! Chemists should be able to provide more over the counter medications. People shouldn't go the see their go for a cough or cold. Patients should buy cheap medications that are over the counter themselves not moan about it.

mumto2babyboys · 21/10/2018 21:04

It is a Sunday times article but obviously unless anyone who wants to read about...

a nhs chief leaving wales because of faults in the nhs system;

And they have a subscription to the Sunday times, they won't be able to read it on the Sunday times will they!

HairyArmpits · 21/10/2018 21:04

Bottom line is it that it's abused beyond words.
I don't go abroad and have treatment for free. I have to pay.

Overseas visitors must be made to pay; exactly like we are charged when we go abroad.
We simply cannot sustain a world wide health service for free.

It's nuts.

mumto2babyboys · 21/10/2018 21:12

I think all the bed blockers are a major waste of money and resources too. Elderly or disabled patients not actually sick anymore but unable to take care of themselves in their own home.

Stuck in wards waiting on social services finding a place somewhere for them and given the lightening fast spread of flu in hospitals, especially in winter they would be better off not in hospital but they just have no where to go

Last winter I saw elderly patients who had already recovered some from surgery and were mostly self care, get struck down with flu and there is no way to avoid it

Also the previous idea from someone about putting all the drunks together somewhere in a monitored room would save money.

As long as they don't fight and try to kill one another lol

Bluelady · 21/10/2018 21:16

I've got the ST in front of me. I shall try and find it.

yourma555 · 21/10/2018 21:19

Also if you pay to go private but then need medication pay for it yourself don't come to your gp then ask to get this on prescription if you can afford to go private you pay all the way for it not expect the NHS to then pay for your medication because you don't want to.

People coming over her for IVF, operations medication and then going back home! We have a few patients who have done this over the years who would of cost the NHS thousand upon thousand in just operations.!

mumto2babyboys · 21/10/2018 21:22

Of course!

One must not offend one's eyes  by reading a link to a different newspaper running the exact same article, word for word but that is 'free'  and lower class

Bluelady · 21/10/2018 21:25

And fascist. Anyway, I found it in th ST. So a high flying health chief is moving from Wales to England to get her husband better cancer care. And your point is?

chocolatebox1 · 21/10/2018 21:26

Don't keep closing walk in centres so A&E ends up overcrowded

Allow nurses to prescribe medication for simple ailments, possibly within a pharmacy

Pay GPs £50,000 instead of £100,000 a year and employ twice as many

Incentives for people to use private healthcare

Look at what is being spent on admin, sending letters, horrible food that isn't eaten and make appropriate cuts

Stop paying over the odds to bank nurses

Serious sanctions for people who abuse ambulance services

Charges for no shows for routine/properly organised appointments

mumto2babyboys · 21/10/2018 21:30

How can they get ivf if they are tourists? they would have to be resident here and then get referred to a fertility clinic and wait for an appointment.

Slightly different if someone falls seriously ill while visiting they would already be admitted into hospital

There should 100% be something for tourists to make them pay to use the nhs

but in the case of the elderly/disabled tourists how would they pay massive healthcare bills for their treatment unless they had travel insurance

Some of the problems can't be solved by asking everyone to pay for treatment like where would you draw the line exactly?

but there are just so so many problems in the nhs, it's a shame!

ChampagneSocialist1 · 21/10/2018 21:34

There’s currently an advert telling people they now have to show proof they are entitled to free prescriptions jeez How much money has the NHS lost before those in charge decided to do anything about it

mumto2babyboys · 21/10/2018 21:34

Nurses can prescribe limited medications currently, it means extra studying though so most don't bother doing it

mumto2babyboys · 21/10/2018 21:38

Someone should start a petition on some of these issues and post it on here once it's done. I haven't got enough time but I have read some excellent ideas,

Maybe it would help change things even slightly to end medical tourism and bed blocking and the a&e abuse from addicts.

www.gov.uk/petition-government

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 21/10/2018 21:49

Nurses can prescribe limited medications currently, it means extra studying though so most don't bother doing it

It's not that most of us "dont bother" its that it isn't within the scope of our current role so we aren't supported by our trusts to do it. If you aren't supported by the trust then any course which requires time at university has to be managed on your free time... if you work shifts you don't always get to dictate that. I don't know about prescribing but many courses require you to have access to patients as part of the coursework (think phlebotomy, CBT) which again requires support, and protected time within the workday from your trust, which we don't always get. I speak from experience over a therapy course I was willing to self fund to a tune of 4k but couldn't be released for the study time or the protected time with patients so couldn't do it.

OhTheRoses · 21/10/2018 22:02

Based on my experience of nurse incompetence I really really don't want them to have any increased responsibility for diagnosing or prescribing.

Stompythedinosaur · 21/10/2018 22:12

I wish every NHS thread did not have to turn into an opportunity to bash nurses.

Nurses are not incompetent (I'm sure some are, as in every profession, but the vast majority aren't) and nor are they "not bothered" to do things that would help the NHS.

If anyone believes that the problems with the NHS are caused by the frontline staff then you are swallowing a lie.