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National Minimum Wage

66 replies

Undercoverbanana · 15/10/2018 09:48

AIBU to think that if this is supposed to be be a wage that can support an adult human to a reasonable standard in 2018 Britain, the current rates are nowhere near sufficient.

How the hell can you buy a flat or rent a property on NMW? Then your hours go up and down and it’s impossible to budget anyway.

These already wealthy and posh politicians have no bloody idea do they?

Or perhaps you are on NMW and you do manage. How? Why are people not bloody furious at this enormous injustice in society. Are the politicians just hoping that millions of people just die on the streets?

OP posts:
AuntBeastie · 15/10/2018 09:51

YANBU - it’s why labour have spent so much energy on campaigning for the living wage to be adopted.

PrivateDoor · 15/10/2018 10:01

Yes it is definitely too low. People shouldn't have to rely on housing benefit, tax credits etc when working full time - it is not acceptable at all. I am not sure what the answer is though, maybe higher tax free allowances? I don't know if some businesses could really sustain higher pay? If the NMW was increased to a fair level I think there may need to be something needed to help smaller businesses, like rates relief or something? I really don't know what the answers are to be honest Sad

BishyBarneyBee3 · 15/10/2018 10:03

Yanbu, the nmw needs to be double what it is.

Undercoverbanana · 15/10/2018 10:06

PrivateDoor - but what about people who are not entitled to extra benefits because they are just single people? What is happening to those people?

OP posts:
NormaLouiseBates · 15/10/2018 10:08

My H is on NMW and we only manage because I'm on a decent salary. He was out of work for years though (due to illness) so wasn't really in a position to be too picky when it came to getting back into work.

I don't know what the answer is though to be honest. He works for a small company (just the owner and 2 other employees) and if his boss had to pay them all a higher wage he wouldn't be able to afford to continue in business.

Bombardier25966 · 15/10/2018 10:09

At the same time there needs to be more regulation around zero hours contracts. They do work for a few people, but for those that rely on them as their main job they're an absolute nightmare. And they shouldn't be counted in the employment statistics unless the individual has sufficient hours guaranteed to ensure they can live on that income (ie a non zero hours contract).

There's something very wrong when employment rates are apparently very high, yet food bank usage is still increasing.

PeasAreGreat · 15/10/2018 10:11

i agree but it's just swings and roundabouts. If companies had to pay staff more, then their pricing would increase to ensure they are still profitable. Then suddenly the new minimum wage wouldn't be sufficient anymore as everything's now more expensive.

Inflations a bitch

Bombardier25966 · 15/10/2018 10:14

I'd be happy to see rate relief and other incentives for small businesses too, as long as Richard Branson and his ilk couldn't manipulate a way to take advantage of it.

Just one example of him manipulating company law to make vast profits at the expense of the state (you and I).

Bombardier25966 · 15/10/2018 10:16

If companies had to pay staff more, then their pricing would increase to ensure they are still profitable.

Only in very basic economic theory. In practice the introduction of the NMW, and subsequent increases, were not inflationary.

Undercoverbanana · 15/10/2018 10:17

PeasAreGreat - but NMW is not about buying goodies and lots of fun shopping, it is about enabling working age people to put a roof over their heads. We’re not talking about buying fancy gear. The property/housing situation in this country is utterly, utterly unjust and unequal and millions of people must be Just sofa-surfing or struggling in unauthorised multi-occupancy homes.

OP posts:
rjay123 · 15/10/2018 10:19

But what is the solution? If you inflate NMW, you will have to inflate salaries for all the skilled or professional roles above it. Which will then cost companies more, which will then raise the cost of goods and services......

Racecardriver · 15/10/2018 10:23

The problem with raising the minimum wage is that it will just increase living costs as the costs of products that require minimum wage employees like food, utilities, pretty much anything that gets sold in a store or goes through a factory or has a telephone line go up. Companies employing minim wahe workers then have to either cut jobs or raise prices. Usually its a little bit of both. People on minimum wage will end up worse off because the things they need to buy will be even more expensive and it will be harder for them to switch jobs or they may loose a job altogether. Everyone else is worse off as well because they too have to pay more for the same stuff. Obviously raising minimum wage doesn't help anyone, least of all the poorest who get hit hardest when the cost of living rises.

Seeing as raising the minimum wage obviously won't work politicians need to look at ways of reducing the cost of living. One obvious option is to lower living costs by relaxing planning rules so that more housing can be built. Another option may be cutting taxes for land Lords so that they can afford to rent out at lower prices or introduce tax breaks specifically for landlords renting to tenants who earn minimum wage. Another option would be to cut the costs of products we need to buy like food etc. Things like cutting vat, cutting business tax rates for companies that provide essatial services and cutting unnecessary regulation can also help. That government could also look at policies that would help people out of minimum wage jobs like not taxing start up businesses within their first five years of operation or no cou vil rates for small businesses. Better access to adult education is another option. Universities aren't geared towards servicing students with real lives and real respo sibikuties like jobs or children but they should be. People should be supported in resulting A levels in adulthood by online platforms that allow them easy access to study materials whenever and wherever they need them. There are a lot of things that politicians can do to help the poor but raising the minimum wage isn't one of them.

PeasAreGreat · 15/10/2018 10:23

@ Undercoverbanana

What? So all of the people working in retail, restaurants, non-essential shops should just find jobs elsewhere? There aren’t enough jobs to merit that! Not everyone can find a job in a company which is essential to the public.

ivykaty44 · 15/10/2018 10:38

Why are large cooperate businesses allowed to use benefits paid to staff in lui if wages to prop up their business?

If Sainsbury, Starbucks, Asda, whitbread and the likes were forced to pay a minimum of £20k for a 37 hour week there shareholders wouldn’t see such big dividends but the benefit bill would decrease rapidly

ivykaty44 · 15/10/2018 10:41

That would be an hourly wage if £10.39
But it would take a very large %of people away from claiming working benefits

Undercoverbanana · 15/10/2018 10:41

No Peas - I’m thinking that the costs of goods like fancy stuff that rich people spend on have less effect on people who have less money because they can’t buy new clothes, jewellery, household goods, phones etc.

Obviously food prices must be protected, and children’s clothes and gas, water and electric.

OP posts:
JessieLemon · 15/10/2018 10:45

It’s impossible. I tried. It’s literally not possible to rent your own flat or house and pay the bills and run a car (necessary for work) and eat on NMW if you’re single.

The only way is house shares. I guess if I had kids or was over 25 I might have been eligible for some kind of help like tax credits or child benefit but as I was under 25 I was ineligible for any help at all and so it was financially impossible to live alone.

I don’t expect to be able to buy on NMW, but it’s shocking that a full time worker on NMW can’t even rent a studio flat to live alone imo.

LimboLuna · 15/10/2018 10:49

Your absolutely right and zero hours contracts, its crap. I over heard an interview at a cafe in a park and the guy was saying "there may be days you turn up for work, but sent home as its raining and your not needed"

So they are expected to get up, get ready for work, get to work (and the cost involved) to just be sent home (and the cost to get home) not earning anything. Whilst i understand the cafe owners position, its crap.

LimboLuna · 15/10/2018 10:50

If you have kids how can you plan child care on a zero hours contract?
You don't know when your working or for how long, you could turn up not be needed and sent home. But you still have to pay your child care bill

Grimbles · 15/10/2018 10:51

Any full time wage that needs to be subsidised by the taxpayer to allow the worker to obtain a basic standard of living isn't enough.

But there will still be those defending employers who do this whilst simultaneously complaining about benefit scroungers.

NHW95 · 15/10/2018 11:05

I’m a single person working full time (40 hours per week) in a minimum wage job. I rent my own flat, run a car and pay all my bills so it is doable but you have to be very organised and learn how to budget. I make sure all my bills are paid first and then whatever is left over (not very much) I either put into savings or buy a luxury e.g a cup of tea in Costa or something. As I’m under 25 I’m not entitled to working tax credits or any type of help.

I normally come home with around £1000 after tax (I pay around £120 in tax and NI) and by the time bills are all paid I’m usually left with around £100 for the month.

It does depress me sometimes that I slog my guts out all week in quite a hard job to then not be left with much by the time I pay all my bills, I have been thinking about retraining for a job that actually pays a fair wage although this has proven quite difficult as most classes in my local college are during the day and I’m working.

There has been times where I’ve had to ask my parents to help with unexpected bills e.g if something breaks on my car as I just can’t afford it. (This is why I try and save now for any unexpected bills).

It is doable but not a great way of life.
It doesn’t give people must incentive to want to go out and work if companies can’t even pay a fair wage.

PeasAreGreat · 15/10/2018 11:15

@Undercoverbanana sorry im really struggling to understand where you're going with this. So it is ok to raise the prices of non-essential goods? but who classes what products as non-essential? people need to buy clothes, children get taller, so they need new clothes. The owners of these non essential shops are ok to be effected, even though they may be scraping tooth and nail to keep their shop open? - but its fine to penalize them because they sell pretty necklaces that no one really needs


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ivykaty44 · 15/10/2018 12:00

In my area you can’t rent through an estate agent or letting agent unless you earn over £25k

NHW95 · 15/10/2018 12:05

ivykaty44 - I rent privately so I’m quite lucky in that sense. I’m also in the North West area so I don’t know if that makes things different in terms of cost.

NHW95 · 15/10/2018 12:08

ivykaty44 - If I lived in your area, I wouldn’t stand a chance as I only earn around £12000 a year.

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