Appalled by John Fowles diary entry re The Collector

[Iused2BanOptimist]

I read The Collector a long time ago. It's a really creepy book and I thought at the time it was almost a manual of "How I'd do it if I did". I have just been leaving through CraigBrown's 99 Glimpses of Princess Margaret left lying around at work. Apparently John Fowles was just one of many admirers, including Picasso who had fantasies about her. His dark fantasy and inspiration for the book repulse me. I wonder if it is a common fantasy? (Not necessarily with the Princess as the object of desire).

I think dark fantasies in themselves aren’t something we should hate people for, especially when we know the person never acted on them. They can be a way to work through issues forced on us by any number of things. Though I agree his book ‘The Collector’ was dealing with a creepy theme, I enjoyed it for his writing skill.

Sorry - just reread your op - you weren’t judging, just asking if dark fantasies were common. I’m not sure!

Given how insanely popular the 50 Shades rape fantasy books are, I'd say yes. Never been into it myself.

(Noting that I'm fully aware 50 Shades is a terrible Twilight fanfic gone even wronger and nothing like real BDSM/sub-dom relationships which should not be coercive)

I think that the fantasy that a high-status woman would fall for a creepy, low-status man If Only She Really Got To Know Him would chime strongly with the Incel ‘sex-redistribution’ ‘movement’.

Oh dear Glorious I think all copies of The Collector should be recalled in case of providing inspiration.

I think that the fantasy that a high-status woman would fall for a creepy, low-status man If Only She Really Got To Know Him would chime strongly with the Incel ‘sex-redistribution’ ‘movement’.

I've heard of "incel" but never "sex redistribution".

The mind boggles. **

In fact when one reads news stories relating to women who have been imprisoned for many years I always think about that book and wonder how many other "collectors" there are out there.

I think it's a really good novel, though Miranda's privileged UMC 60s right-on-ness and her crush on the awful male chauvinist pig artist strike me nearly as much as the sheer horror of Ferdinand/Frederick/Caliban.

Most dark fantasies are repulsive.

I often fantasise about things that are completely and utterly unacceptable, like punching people, grabbing their head and smashing it against the wall.

I'd write about it. I wouldn't ever do it. John Fowles book is one of my favourites and I read it as a young girl. A very successful book too.

I suppose he would have been unlikely to write such a book if it wasn't reflective of fantasies and dark thoughts. I just found that diary quote admitting to a lifelong fantasy of imprisoning a girl underground rather shocking. There are also some rather unkind reflections regarding his girlfriend, subsequently his wife. He seems thoroughly unpleasant.

Very true Butty I won't specify my favourite fantasy as I don't want to be struck out! It may have something to do with superpowers and population control.

It's certainly an unputdownable book Glorious, it sort of sucks you in as an unwilling voyeur.

Sure mine are worse

Is a fantasy though something someone would do if they could get away with it? Because there are thoughts and imaginings that people write about and one think that can lead to another horrific thing. It does appear that for some part he did base the collector on his own Macabre fantasy- from what you're saying.

I enjoyed all his books though

I never understood the Magus. Clearly beyond my intellect. Perhaps that's why I'm rather enjoying Craig Brown's little book of anecdote and tittle tattle.

Oh, Fowles was a total arse I interviewed him over the phone for a magazine when I was a student pompous, self-important, angry that his genius wasn't more fully appreciated, and incredibly unpleasant about women writers. And his attitude to women is evident from his writings -- either unimaginative domestic obstructions trailing nappies and saucepans and inane chitchat that prevent writing, or available totty or distant muse-figures.

I love the casting in the film version, the handsome Terence Stamp, the beautiful Samantha Egger. I saw the film when I was about 13 & remember thinking how I would have just gone along with him as Stamp was so handsome, but re watching and reading the book as an adult it’s a different story.
I have read that Fowles was an arse as you say Mystery, and like John Osbourne was full of himself.

Probably most fantasies need to stay just that, unless it's harmless stuff like a post lottery win shopping list which you unexpectedly find possible to indulge. Which of course is roughly where the Collector began.

I think fantasies along the lines of what we would do if we could do it without being caught would still remain in ur imagination as we would still be constrained by moral choice. Which I suppose is where problems arise, when people don't have that sense of morality to regulate their behaviour.

And mostly we don't make a successful novel out of it. I think mine has potential for a James Bond villain but I lack the accompanying literary potential sadly. I fantasise about that too.

It’s like John Osbourne, misogynists both.

What would you think if a female character behaved as Freddy does?

I feel for his girlfriend / wife. I wonder if she ever read his diary.

I think Fowles is a very compelling writer with some clearly objectionable attitudes. It comes through in his work - very misogynistic alongside the cleverness. I wouldn't criticise anyone for having dark fantasies or wanting to work through them via art, but it is creepy as fuck sometimes.

I am definitely going to look out for Craig Brown’s book

It’s like the arse who shot John Lennon was obsessed with the totally crap Catcher In The Rye. No doubt some serial killers have read books which they feel inspire and justify their actions. It’s like people blaming heavy metal for their actions. Fantasy is fine in the mind, but not to be used as a handbook for vile behaviour.

Perhaps creepy books are best read in our younger days.
I would pick up Craig's book in a charity shop or discarded at work as I did (sneaked into my bag when no one was looking) But it's an easy weekend read with some interesting insights.
What terminal decline I have come to.

I'm not sure who that 'G' would have been in 1951 he had an affair with a colleague's wife when he was teaching in a school on a Greek island in the early 50s, so it might be her, though her name was Elizabeth she ended her marriage, they both moved back to England, and got married in the late 50s -- she died in the early 1990s, and he married again a few years later, and she outlived him. But I don't think he was ever particularly faithful. He had a relationship when he was in his 60s with a 21 year old Oxford undergraduate he seems to have seen as a sort of muse, though I think that happened after his first wife died. She sold their letters after his death.