Carehome telling family patient has died.

[ginandnappies]

Hey everyone

Posting here for traffic.

My brothers partners family has a bit of an issue, and I just want to see if anyone has any advice.

Her grandad is in a care home and her mum (his daughter) got a phone call today saying he had passed away. It has been expected for a few days. She wasn't near the home, so an hour later she got another phone call saying they made a mistake and when they went to wash him he was breathing.

Surely this isn't right. They never got a doctor to confirm the death. She was in shock after the phone call so just said ok and put the phone down.

Anyone got any advice?

Xx

Bloody hell! I would want a meeting with the manager immediately and an investigation into this incident. And I'd also like to know their policy on what to do in such an incident.

Oh God how stupid of them.
Was he sorry if distressing but was he cheyne stoking because they can sometimes look like they have passed on then resume breathing.

A whole hour after they thought he was dead they went to wash him but he still hadn't been seen by a doctor? Something not right there, aside from the obviously distressing phone call. Absolutely call a meeting, but try and have someone slightly neutral attend as well; it's hard to get everything in an emotional situation. Someone removed who can note take would be ideal.

I got a call in the middle of the night about my mother, which we were expecting. The doctor didn't come till the next day.

Only doctors and now paramedics can declare a death. Something wrong in that home if they didn't wait for a formal examination.

Is it possible they had took the procedures and where waiting on the Doctor maybe they had to call him Abt the mistake also

I get that you need a doctor to officially declare a death but wouldn't they at least check his pulse or something?

Thanks all for advice. I just don't understand how it could have happened. Family is obviously very upset. It's crazy. They just said they sat with him and held his hand then he died. An hour later he was alive.

@Worzilgummidge I'm not sure, someone at work said that might be cause but they said he went very peacefully. Does that sound like it could be it?

I'm a bit lost as to why they would go to wash a dead person? Isn't that what the funeral home do? Terrible mistake. Either he was dead or me wasn't! How awful.

@bobstersmum I have no idea, that didn't even occur to me. It's all very sad and confusing.

A doctor doesn't need to confirm death now. A nurse in a care home would be able to do that. It changed a good few years ago.

When I worked in a nursing home (years ago) a nurse and a career would sit with an obviously dying patient. When they’d died nurse would check pulse and cover them then go to phone relatives, doctor and funeral home. If he has been frail for a long time it may be difficult to feel a pulse but surely you’d see them breathing.

*caree

I was going to say that it seems weird that they were washing him too; if he was dead. But I'm glad they did under the circumstances!

Ffs - carer

It’s very normal for carers or nurses to wash people who've just died, they are likely to have soiled themselves apart from anything. Making a person more presentable in death is a final act of care, but just for the person but for the family about to see them too.

*not just for the person

When I worked in care it was the norm to wash the deceased person and put a clean incontinence pad on them.

We used to perform last offices in hospital. Last offices = washing patient and laying him/her out. Putting shroud on. Neatly packing his/her belongings away.

@Didiplanthis oh really? Is that the same all over the UK? We are in Scotland. I thought doctor had to be phoned. Maybe not! X

This may be upsetting -
In theory you shouldn't inform a family until the Dr or a paramedic has certified. In practice as a care assistant I've waited up to 8 hours for a Dr to confirm death. Paramedics won't attend this type of scenario, they pass it on to the on call Dr service. I have known people wait and the resident be in full rigormortis by the time a Dr has certified and the undertaker has arrived. It's awful, but unfortunately the on call services have to prioritize the patients.
And many people on end of life pathways are getting morphine, this suppresses respiration and it can be incredibly hard to someone who isn't trained (which most care assistants are not) to note very subtle signs that are not visible, or audible without a stethoscope and a trained ear.
As for taking a pulse, the pulse can be almost impossible to detect sometimes, if it's very weak and thready and the artery or veins have sunken with the progression of the condition, or as happens in the elderly.
That said, the practice used to be that even in a expected death, the body wasn't touched (washed/changed or moved or anything moved from the room) until certified by a Dr. I don't know if this has changed though because it's a while since I was in care. Or it may have just been the places I worked. So I'd be wondering why they were washing him before a Dr had attended.
It's a horrible situation, and definitely warrants a meeting with the home to find out what happened and if anything could have been done differently and this prevented.

If it were my relative I would want them to phone me at the same time as they called the doctor, and I would hate to wait til next day for a formal confirmation to be made before I was informed. I can see how this is upsetting, and clearly something went wrong here with the care home but I’m guessing they prioritised letting her know it was the end because that’s what a lot of people would want as they’d want to get there ASAP.

It's normal to wash them, they wash and put them in fresh clothes/nightclothes and clean sheets as the family can often get there before the doctor comes and it's nice for them to look clean and peaceful. We've had a Doctor take 12 hours to come out and check a patient who has passed away. The family would be pretty annoyed if they found out that late that family had passed. Then we call the funeral home to come and pick them up. We usually do pulses and listen for heart and lung sounds and few times, with more than one nurse checking before we say that they have actually died.

Most nurses nowadays can verify an expected death (I can and I work in a hospital). So depending on time of day they could have either asked one of their own nurses from the home or called the community nursing team and had a district nurse sent out to verify the death (especially if it was out of hours and an OOH GP can take ages)!

In regards to the way it was handled, I personally wouldn't have told family members over the phone that someone had died (I never do, I always say "there's been a change in their or condition" or "there's been significant deterioration"). Seems shitty but that's how I was trained, and it does minimise the distress for families. I can see how they might have made a mistake but there are procedures in place to ensure someone has passed before family should be contacted. I'd ask for a meeting with management and medical/nursing staff to ascertain what actually happened! Sorry for your loss OP X