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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think you keep the engagement ring if you get divorced?

54 replies

Celestia26 · 11/10/2018 18:10

A bit of an odd one, but Mumsnetters always seem to know these things!

A very good friend of mine is getting divorced.

He and his wife have been married just over a year. He has found out she has been cheating on him and now they are splitting up.

It's all very sad and he is gutted.

I am good friends with his mum too, as he and I were childhood friends, so his mum is like a 2nd mum to me and we talk alot.

She has confided in me (but not him) that she is very upset for him about the break up. But she is especially sad about the engagement ring.

It was her mother's engagement ring and meant alot to her. She gave it to my friend years ago and said it was for the girl he would marry, to be passed down the family.

She didn't like his wife very much, but when he said he was proposing to her, she felt like she couldn't go back on her word, and let him use his grandmothers ring.

She is really sad that such a sentimental piece of jewellery now belongs to someone that she doesn't like and who broke her sons heart.

I have said that she just needs to accept that the ring is gone. I think legally if a marriage takes place then the ring stays with the woman, is this right?

Is there anything she can do?

OP posts:
Original poster
Celestia26 · 11/10/2018 18:39

LittleMissCantBeBothered

Thanks that's reassuring! And good advice too.

OP posts:
SummerGems · 11/10/2018 18:41

Legally it’s hers and afaik doesn’t even count as part of the assets of the marriage.

Also, it preceded the marriage and as such it’s not a ring given recently iyswim as they were presumably engaged for a while before being married?

Tbh I’m not sure she even has a moral obligation to give it back just because it’s a family heirloom. After all it was her’s was given to her as a gift. Given that second hand jewellery has virtually no resale value there would be little point in her keeping it as she wouldn’t likely wear it again after the divorce, so I would be inclined as the h to just mention her giving it back as a matter of course, e.g.just say something along the lines of “oh, well I’ll take x and y and if you could give the engagement ring back so I can give it back to my mum as it was gran’s,”then she’ll have to come up with something in order to justify keeping it, iyswim.

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/10/2018 18:43

Legally its a gift, but the law (in this case is an ass)

IPokeBadgers · 11/10/2018 18:43

Don't know the legalities of the situation but under the circumstances outlined in the OP, I think wanting/requesting the ring back is understandable and the ex would be a really nasty piece of work not to give it back. If it had been a new shop bought ring then not realistic to expect it back and very little by way of financial benefit to be gained given generally poor jewellery resale value.

DontCallMeCharlotte · 11/10/2018 18:43

It really goes against the grain but could the mother offer to buy it back? (Get it valued independently - it won't be as much as either of them think!)

Of course the ex-DIL should give it back.

shallichangemyname · 11/10/2018 19:02

Divorce lawyer here.
Contractually the ring belongs to her. UNLESS when he gave it to her he said it had to be returned if they ever got divorced.
Contractual rights/legal ownership isn't the be all and end all in a divorce. He can ask for it back as part of the settlement on the basis it is a family heirloom and a very short marriage. He may have to give her a sweetener for it though.
After a very short marriage with both parties working you'd expect each to walk away with their own assets and a clean break.
I was given an engagement ring in similar circumstances. Not only is the stone of sentimental value, it also has a really interesting story behind it to do with Occupied Belgium in WW1. DH was very embarrassed but said his mother wanted to make clear it must be returned if we divorced. I said I understood but that if we had children I wouldn't return it but would keep it and pass it on. He agreed this was reasonable. When we divorced (after DCs) no issue was made about it at all. Although actually I haven't worn it for years.
Had we divorced after a short childless marriage I would have returned it.

Original poster
Celestia26 · 11/10/2018 22:12

shallichangemyname

Thanks for the professional advice. They didn't discuss what might happen if they got divorced. I suppose my friend was expecting to be in it for the long run.

Thanks for sharing your similar situation!

OP posts:
agnurse · 12/10/2018 00:56

I do not know how it works if the couple marry but I do know that if an engagement is broken the person who bought the ring gets it back. An engagement ring is given in contemplation of marriage. If the contract is not fulfilled the ring is returned to the person who bought it.

itsbritneybiatches · 12/10/2018 01:13

Morally yes.
Legally no it was given before the marriage

parkermoppy · 12/10/2018 01:21

She should give the ring back on moral grounds. I would agree that if he had bought the ring she would keep it because there is not so much sentimental value but in this case the ring should 100% be returned

shallichangemyname · 12/10/2018 08:39

Agnurse that is the law in Scotland but not in the rest of the UK.
Unless when the ring was given it was expressly stated that it was given on condition then it is an outright gift.
The good news is that once married there is no hard and fast rule about who keeps what and he could argue for its return to his mother.

MsHopey · 12/10/2018 08:43

Judge Judy says an engagement ring is like a contract for the contemplation of marriage.
If they don't get married, the contract is broken so technically they have to return the ring.
If they do get married then the contract has been fulfilled and the ring is forever.

Saying that, morally I think she should return it, but someone who cheats clearly isn't that morally inclined anyways.

MarthaArthur · 12/10/2018 08:45

Legally the ring belongs to her to do with what she wishes. Its like any other gift. Ince its given its that persons property. She morally should return the ring but does not have to.

greendale17 · 12/10/2018 08:54

His mother’s engagement ring? If this woman had any shred of decency she would give it back.

I would have to evaluate my friendship with someone like this. Not just the cheating but the ring business. It wouldn’t sit right with me at all.

TheDowagerCuntess · 12/10/2018 09:00

Only someone who was morally bankrupt / borderline sociopath would keep the ring in these circumstances.

Just do the right thing - it's actually very, very, very easy when you're not a total arsewipe.

AuntBeastie · 12/10/2018 09:09

The legal position is that the ring belongs to her but in this situation I would appeal to her better nature and ask her to return it as it’s so sentimental. Or even offer to buy it back maybe?

thetigerthatcamefortea · 12/10/2018 09:19

Ordinarily it would be hers to keep as a gift. However I understand that if it’s a family heirloom then it can be argued in court that it should be returned.

shallichangemyname · 12/10/2018 09:39

But Judge Judy is American so applying US law.....

shallichangemyname · 12/10/2018 09:40

If I had a pound for every time I have told a client the law isn't about morals, or heard a judge say that....

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 12/10/2018 09:44

If I was him, I'd just take it if I had the opportunity and then deny all knowledge. Very shady of her to keep it under these circumstances.

KC225 · 12/10/2018 09:48

Apparently Meghan Markle sent hers back through the post and she didn't even cheat.

Jagblue · 12/10/2018 09:56

He can offer to buy it back. Legally there isn't anything he can do.

MulticolourMophead · 12/10/2018 10:23

We can ignore Judge Judy and the US law.

Historically, an engagement ring was kept by the woman as compensation in the event a marriage didnt take place. Because many, many years ago, even getting engaged could leave a woman being viewed as not suitable to marry, and could find life hard if she didn't marry.

Gillian1980 · 12/10/2018 10:25

If it were me, I would 100% return a family heirloom ring. It should stay in the family.

However, if he had bought me a ring I’d consider it a gift and keep it.

Butterflycookie · 12/10/2018 10:35

She should give the ring back! They are no longer together so why keep it. It is morally wrong especially as it’s an heirloom. How mean can you be! As a friend, you should try to convince her to give it back. Likes others have said, they could buy it off her if necessary.

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