What is on time and what is late?

[FrustratedEarlyBird]

I've changed username due to being linked back to my normal account but I'm a term user - Korean granny/penis beaker etc.

Anyway! I work in a 6th form college. Today I had 16 out of 23 students late to my 9am class. All sauntered in with no apology and honestly no reasons.

I shut my classroom door at 9.03 and expect them to be in their seats by then, otherwise they're late and in trouble - with the exceptions of genuine reasons who notified in advance obviously.

Anyway one such child who sauntered in at 9.06 and was suitably told that it was not acceptable has gotten a parent to complain to me by email that I'm being overzealous and lateness is not a big deal.

So. I put it to you the mumsnet jury! What is late? What is on time? Hit me with your anonymous opinions as to whether I need rectify my totalitarian ways or not 😂

(PS this is lighthearted venting of frustrations!)

At my son's primary school, the doors are locked at 9am and late comers have to go through the main office and are marked late.

It sounds like there is a general timekeeping issue with a lot of your students. Maybe start doing zero tolerance (doors locked at 9am and then they get in trouble for missing a class). Unless there is a good reason for lateness of course.

I was just about to suggest the same thing PasswordRejection.

Lock the door at 9. It's not fair on those who arrive on time and have their lesson constantly disrupted.

The only thing I would tolerate is the following situation. In registration class from 8:30-8:40. Can't leave before 8:40. Registration class is on the first floor.
Next class starts at 8:40. It's on the 8th floor (yes my school had 8 floors)
Seeing as how I can't teleport or be in two places at once I'd tolerate 5 mins travel time then. Oh also had the crush of all 1,500 pupils trying to get to their class!

Assuming it's a lesson not a cocktail party everyone should be ready to learn at 9:00am.

Anything after 9 is late.

I always made sure my children arrived at school a minimum of 5 minutes before the bell was due to go. That was at primary school.

At secondary school we had less control over it because we are in a village and they were reliant on the school contract bus, as school was in the next town 7 miles away. There is no other transport. They never missed the bus, but it did go through phases of turning up late for a variety of reasons (roadworks or whatever) and then delivering the whole cohort of them late to school. Sometimes even after registration.

So I guess it depends on the reason for the lateness too. School bus being late is out of their control. Laziness, not getting up in good time etc. is well within their control and they need pulled up on it.

YANBU

The only time I wouldn’t expect them to be ready to start at 9am is if they have another class that doesn’t finish until 9am, as it’s impossible to teleport across campus!

I would also be shocked at sixth formers getting mummy to get involved over a justified telling off

As for BobLemon Persistent lateness is just because you don’t give a shit. You’re not sorry at all or you wouldn’t keep doing it.

I’m always 20/30 minutes early can’t stand being late.

Late means 8.55 for 9am

I would say anything after 8.55 is running late. Students should be sat and ready, waiting to start at 9am.

For the first class of the day they should be sitting down ready to start so if that’s 9am, anything after that is late.

If the classes are back to back then a bit of leeway is sensible for classes later in the day.

When I was doing A-Levels I had a dash across a large campus a few times as did lots of us. Teachers generally accepted 5 mins late then.

Hi if they are five minutes late for work every day- they won’t have a job..... you are teaching life skills, this parent is teaching them to be a snowflake......

YANBU..... 9.01 is too late.

I'm at university, my earliest start is 8:30 am. If anyone arrives after this time they are simply not allowed in.

There are obvious exceptions, notice beforehand for example but generally if you can't make it in time the lecturer is not prepared to teach you.

I bloody love it, last year we'd have people wandering in 10-15 minutes after start time causing disruption and the whole class suffers as a result.

I’m one of those always late people. I am sorry though! Still won’t stop me being late.

You're not sorry at all, or you wouldn't be "always late". It's rude and disrespectful.

"9am" means 09:00:00, though I would probably allow until 09:00:59 until I classed someone as late (because their phone might only display hours and minutes).

Everyone has problems or delays from time to time, but they should be the exception rather than the rule. If your train is late once, fine. If your train is late every day, get an earlier train.

If this is sixth form college, then surely these students were recently in school. I don't know of any secondary schools that tolerate lateness. Many won't even tolerate lateness with a good excuse.
Surely none of them genuinely think the "rules" have changed now?

Is your session 9:00 the first place they are expected to be on campus in the day. If they have come from registering elsewhere and are struggling with movement time, that's different to being the first port of call.

Schools struggle to be too regimented on timekeeping through the day as there is rarely movement time allocated for bavk to back lessons and it can easily take 5-10 minutes to move across campus. More problematic is if the teacher has to dismiss a class, gather everything and teleport to another room and set up simultaneously, especially if they have further to travel than the next class.

Everyone should be in the room by 9:00 if it is the first session. Be clear about what you expect. Some people will interpret 8:59 as a minute early, some will expect people to have had a couple of minutes to sit and get equipment out by then.

9:03 has left a clear margin for error and parents complaining about a 16+ year old being berrated for 9:06 is frankly ridiculous. Being clear about what you expect will teach them much more than their parents' attitude.

I was always taught to be early is on time, to be on time is late, to be late is unacceptable

Thank god im not alone. Honestly you wouldn't believe the levels of attendance that have become the norm in recent years and I'm in a "naice" area and a very highly rated college with a good calibre of students.

Sadly we get very little support from parents either, the vast majority will back their child irregardless of their actions.

The fact that the big wide world is much more harsh on things like this genuinely does not factor into their thinking.

It really is quite depressing seeing this key skill getting degraded each year.

But oh well! Deep breath on carry on

The best way I saw this handled by a teacher (ok, two best ways) were as follows:

The legal, advisable, strict way. Start promptly at 9am. Begin your teaching. Any latecomers, a curt, "You're late. We'll discuss it at the end of class." Then continuing without batting an eyelid, and give any penalty then. Set the tone very well I thought, and she was a very respected teacher.

The risky, nutty, hilarious one (as we saw it). Started promptly at 9am. Saw habitually late kid coming down the school drive in an unhurried fashion. Teacher climbed up on top of the cabinet next to the door, and after the boy entered, jumped down behind him shouting nonsense at him. Boy jumped out of his skin and was never late again

We had a teacher who made you write 10 words out of a dictionary for every min you were late...
He kept a note of where you were...

You should have a collage or school policy on this. Then it's not just you who students and parents are having a go at about this. I'm with pp's you should be ready to start by 9am. This is teaching them a valuable life skill as in most jobs you're expected to be on time and ready to start by a set time. Same for meetings, interviews and various appointments.

In a classroom setting it's disrespectful and disruptive to other students you could easily lose 10 to 15 mins per class to lateness and re starting the lesson.

In a classroom, I would expect everyone to be seated and at least in the last stages of getting pen/paper/laptop or whatever ready. Lecture/Instruction should be able to begin no later than 9.03. Three minutes is plenty of time to stow bags and get ready to learn.

Anything past 9:05 for me. I always allow five minutes leeway and tell them to notify me via email if they’re going to be any later.

I teach adults though so it’s slightly different, I can barely penalise a Middle aged man as you could a 17 year old boy .

When I was in university, anyone that was late was not allowed in and missed the whole lecture - it worked!

Were you at my (recently demolished) school scifi fan? 8 floors and 2000 pupils when I was there in the 80s though it went down to 1500ish later once the annexe was sold. Annexe to main building was a five to ten minute walk, and the crush for the lifts and in the stairwells had to be seen to be believed.

Like to see them catch a 9am train if they rocked up to the platform at 9.06

They'd catch the 8am train if they rocked up at 09.06 to be fair .....