to think it's unfair to leave the "in on time" children out....

[flowerpower18]

Hi All

I may just be being the over sensitive Mum here so thought I'd ask your opinions.

My DS's school in the past has not had very good attendance and children being late to school. I don't like being late for anything myself so as you can guess my DS is in school on time everyday.

To tackle this problem the school give points to each class at the end of the week that have the most attendance and punctuality then whichever class receives the most point before school holidays get a cinema trip, which I think is a great incentive, however, what I don't agree with is that in my DS's class its the same children everyday that are late or don't attend school so his class always receive the lowest points and I find it unfair that the children who are in on time everyday and really make an effort don't get rewarded for this....

Am I being oversensitive? or should I bring it up with his teachers?

Also whilst I'm here, I have another bug-bearer that you could help me with. I'm not sure if its most schools that this happens with but my DS is on pack lunch, everyday he comes home with it half eaten because they don't get time to eat all they're lunch. He says by the time his class gets into the dinner hall they have about 30 minutes to eat lunch and have play time. Like most children my DS loves play times at school and because of this he rushes his lunch and leaves it most days.

Should I speak to the school or is this something that will always happen?

It should be the children that have the best points not the class but then how many children could that be for the trip? Maybe they should come up with a better incentive as doesn't seem fair that good children miss out because they have more of the late ones in their class.

Why "by the time they get to the dinner hall"? That doesn't seem very fair they get less time.

Speaking to the school might be a good idea but doesn't mean anything would change.

Do other parents have these same issues do you know?

I’d mention it to school and suggest a change. Can’t do any harm to give feedback if you do it in a positive manner.

I don’t think they should be rewarding Primary ages children for punctuality anyway because they have zero control over it- it’s the parents who control whether kids are late or on time. How unfair on those children that are late because their parents don’t give a shit to be essentially disadvantaged at school too?
Stupid idea all round.

I hate attendance incentives imo they don't work single children out and then all the children suffer, because it isn't any childs responsibility to get themselves to school it is the adults who are in their lives, and not getting to the pictures is just highlighting the kids. Yanbu it isn't right kids miss out because of adults or even illness which I forgot to mention

Regarding the lunch issue, does your ds go to the lunch hall straight from class or does he have some time on the playground first, then go to the hall when it's his year group's turn?

If it's the former, then 30 minutes isn't enough to eat and to play.

If it's the latter then you need to encourage him to try and change his mindset. He needs to think of the time when he goes out on the playground at the end of morning lessons as his playtime. Once it's time for his class to line up and go into the hall then playtime is over and it's time for him to have his lunch and then go to afternoon lessons (any extra time on the playground after eating should be seen as a few minutes unexpected bonus time - not time that can be expected or counted on). 30 minutes should be plenty of time to eat a packed lunch.

The lunch is your sons thing are y

Most schools usually have individual attendance rewards too for this very reason. You could suggest that if they don't already do this.
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Yanbu about the lateness reward, that is unfair

I would leave the lunch, I think I have been told every single day for 7 years "I didn't have enough time", I think it translates into "I was too busy chatting/playing to eat it all", if he was hungry it would get eaten

My DD's primary did the same thing, but they had a non attending boy in their class, he came about 2 mornings a week. So the other class won the attendance record every week. The school couldn't see anything wrong with this .

Also if your DS is going into lunch second sitting then he will normally be on playtime first, then lunch. So he should be getting the same amount of playtime, but if his friends are on school lunch he probably rushes lunch to get back out to play with them

Sorry I sent to soon i was just going to say the lunch thing is you and yourr sons issue to work out either he is faffing doesn't realise timebefore lunch is playtime or he has too muchfood so he isn't finishing what you give him, he will work it out.

My DC would rather play than eat their lunch, so they used to only eat a very small amount.
30 minutes should be plenty of time, so the only thing you could potentially ask the school to do is encourage your child to eat more of their lunch (which opens a whole can of worms as there will be other parents who won't want their DC under pressure to eat more than they've chosen to). I'd let it go.

Same issue with DD2 re leaving half her packed lunch. it was because the dinner lady was in a rush to get the children out of the hall and would constantly bark at them to hurry up. Made DD anxious so I had a word with the school and it was all sorted out.

if I or dinner lady had decided it was all faffing, wouldn't have got sorted out would it? As it is, matter was dealt with quickly with no fuss.

The being penalised for other latecomers isn't fair and I would have a word.

Too many parents afraid to speak to the school yet it's just common sense matters really.

I don't like class incentives or punishments, children are individuals.
It doesn't work as it's never the whole class who have been naughty, late, on time, etc.

Attendance awards whether class or individual are wrong and discriminatory

I think it's a good life lesson for him, that he can do his best but sometimes others will bring him down.

Success often takes total commitment and requires you to bring other people onside. "Unfair" lessons like this might drive him to develop his negotation skills and learn the art of persuasion. When he starts work he may be part of a team, the success of which relies on the efforts of everyone else. He might need to motivate the slacker, deal with the disruptor, and so on, in order to keep his own job.

For the sake of argument, say he becomes a doctor in a hospital. He may be the best doctor around, but if the hospital is filthy or the nurses can't be bothered to turn up for work, his own excellence and commitment will be worth little if he cannot persuade the hospital to focus on the areas that are lacking.

Ok, Why I don't believe in rewards such as cinema trips. Do we know why a child is consistently late? Is it issues at home, issues at school or is it just poor time keeping. The school should be dealing with issues of time keeping with the parents, not stigmatising children.

Rewards should be for individual merit, if a child is suffering neglect at home and is consistently late because of it, that child will always be late no matter what rewards are on offer, other kids are encouraged to have a go for never getting the treat, this neglected kid now has Teachers, Peers and Home doubling down on them, all because of a cinema trip!?!

Not a well thought out reward policy, infact it is really rather othering of children and I would be worried about the level of intelligence of the staff at that school who would introduce such a divisive policy!

My son hardly ate anything during lunch in primary school as he also wanted to play...I made him less lunch and prepared a bigger snack for after school.

attendance awards are horrible and discriminatory, they penalise children who are chronically sick, for example, which is particularly horrible

in general punctuality and attendance have little to do with the child, so they are being punished or rewarded for things out of their control, terrible way of teaching

I would concentrate on that!

everyday he comes home with it half eaten because they don't get time to eat all they're lunch. He says by the time his class gets into the dinner hall they have about 30 minutes to eat lunch and have play time. Like most children my DS loves play times at school and because of this he rushes his lunch and leaves it most days.

So he does have enough time, he just doesnt have as much time as he wants! Frankly he could have a 2 hour lunch break and he would still rush his lunch because eating isnt as much fun as playing so I would let that go if I were you. I have learned, in 23 years of primary school parenting (6 kids, big age gaps!), that there are some battles you are never going to win, and half of the packed lunch coming home again is one of them. Ime if you kick up a fuss they will find a way to throw it away so you have no idea what they have eaten.

Attendance awards are horrible - there isn't anything the child can do about being ill or having a disorganised family.

Lunch - nothing to worry about. Provide a small easy-to-eat lunch and accept that play is more important to him than balanced nutrition is to you! My youngest was a horror for this and would often eat nothing as he was 'too busy'. I make sure he has a big breakfast.

@sirzy and @scabbybabby

Unfortunately, schools do get penalised by ofsted if their attendance isn't good and they're not seen to be doing anything about it. And some older pupils can certainly have a say in getting to school- many above year 5 walk themselves in. With the little ones, it is the parents who cause lateness and non-attendance, but many schools rely on pester power to get those parents motivated. It's not a perfect system but schools are required to do something. Rewards for good attenders aren't the same as punishments for poor attenders. More of a bonus that you're only eligible for if you meet a given set of criteria.

I hate whole class rewards, for attendance or anything. How are KS1 and 2 children supposed to have any influence on the punctuality, uniform adherence, or behaviour of their classmates. It might work at secondary, as students take more responsibility for themselves, but at primary levels it's more about the parents.
As for the packed lunch issue, don't they get to play before their dining hall slot. We had 12 classes and an hour for lunch, so we picked 4 classes and they went in first while the other 8 went out to play. After 20 mins the next four were called, so everyone had roughly 40 mins play and 20 mins eating time. We also had one class from every year at a time to avoid the crazy noise levels of 90 Year 6s in the hall at the same time!

The lateness thing is spectacularly unfair, both on the kids who are in on time and those who are late (there could be numerous reasons why they’re late, presumably they’re primary aged so it’s down to the parents)

The lunch thing is a kid desperate to play so leaving his lunch. I wouldn’t get wound up about it, DD does the same.

And re the attendance, I think rewards are a good idea in senior school as lateness is more usually down to the pupil. But in primary its at best a waste of time and at worst downright cruel. Most children dont choose to be late and if they are then it is usually down to the parents. Rather than penalising a whole class the school should be focussing their efforts into supporting those children who are struggling to attend/on time due to neglectful or chaotic home lives.