Breastfeeding rates in the UK

[Faerie87]

It’s just that really, been reading up a lot on this recently and the statics show that our rates are not as good as other countries, so what is it that other countries do differently?

I currently feed my LG a combination of breast milk and formula, I express for her, unfortunately I was never able to get her to latch properly but would have loved to have been able to feed her directly. I know this can be quite an emotive subject so I thought I would share my experience to show I’m not in one camp or the other regarding this, I’m just curious to find out what is the general consensus on why the Uk does have low breast feeding rates?

I think it’s nice to share experiences of feeding baby’s whether it be formula feeding or breast feeding, and for those ladies who have tried to breast feed but not continued what made you stop? And if you were to have another baby would you do anything differently?

My dd was mix fed till 10 months and then had formula up until 12 months she didn't sleep through the night till she was 2. She was still waking and feeding 2 or 3 times a night at 10 months. My ds is 13 weeks old. He sleeps 10pm till 3am feeds and then goes back to sleep till 7am. He is ebf. Different babies sleep differently and feeding has little to do with it.

I suspect there's a strong cultural influence at play in this, creating an atmosphere in which breastfeeding isn't the norm.

My older sisters had their babies in the 70s and as far as I can recall it was assumed then that they would ff.

I had my babies in the 80s and again the majority of women ff. There was very little support for bf women and there was little or no advice.

There was no concept of feeding on demand: I was told to feed every four hour at the same time the ff babies were fed. I was made to feel as if I was being awkward and a bloody nuisance because I didn't want my baby in the nursery overnight being ff by the nursery nurses.

So given that most women for several generations have been positively discouraged from bf is it surprising that young women now don't bf. It's just not part of our way of doing things.

When I got my first baby home - we had to be in hospital for 5 days - I ignored everything I'd been told by the hospital staff and read everything I could find and informed myself about feeding my baby on demand and I ended up fully bf all my DCs till well over 2 years of age.

My DD has recently had her 3rd baby and has fully bf all of them until almost 2 years of age; well not the last one yet, but I'm sure she will.

I'm not sure anything is going to change because there still isn't a lot of information and support for bf women. A lot of young women find bf difficult.

Unfortunately it often isn't easy and can be painful to establish and unless they're very determined to continue and have the necessary support most will give up.

Couple that sort of history with the general attitude of society towards fb and how women's breast are viewed in our society, is it any wonder bf rates are so low.

And yes goat, I have never heard of a baby doing the crawl thing irl, but I did see an NCT video of it, so it does happen.

Even my friends with the best bfing babies had to latch them on a bit.

Regarding how bf rates are recorded:
From RCPH:

The UK has one of the lowest rates of breastfeeding in Europe. There are limited data available to compare trends in breastfeeding internationally, particularly at age 6-8 weeks when current UK data are recorded.

www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/position-statement-breastfeeding-uk

From the WHO:
"Exclusive breastfeeding" is defined as no other food or drink, not even water, except breast milk (including milk expressed or from a wet nurse) for 6 months of life, but allows the infant to receive ORS, drops and syrups (vitamins, minerals and medicines).

"Predominant breastfeeding" means that the infant's predominant source of nourishment has been breast milk (including milk expressed or from a wet nurse as the predominant source of nourishment). However, the infant may also have received liquids (water and water-based drinks, fruit juice) ritual fluids and ORS, drops or syrups (vitamins, minerals and medicines). '

www.who.int/nutrition/topics/infantfeeding_recommendation/en/

stonebake the thing that no one points out about expressing is that it turns one job into two - or more if, like lots of people, it takes you more than one pumping session to get a full feed. Obviously for some women - I'm guessing including you - it's their only option if they want their baby to have breast milk, but I see so many women (particularly on the pregnancy board here) breezily saying that they'll breastfeed but then also express 'so they can have a break and dad can also feed' and I think it's mis-selling to say that expressing creates a break for the mother rather than just a different (and in my view harder) form of work.

YY to the expressing being much more of a ballache than feeding. I sometimes felt like it was a favour I was doing for DH so he could 'have a go', no benefit to me or baby

I had a traumatic birth and was separated from my first baby for a couple of hours after birth. She was given to my husband after an hour or so and he was encouraged to do the skin to skin and she kept trying to latch onto his nipple. I wouldn’t say she crawled but she was gagging for it. HOWEVER the (close to retirement midwife) was so taken a back she specifically told me she was going to write about it on my notes because she had only seen a few babies feed so well in all her years of delivery. Maybe the crawling up to the breast just happens at homebirths (I was shown the YouTube video too LOL)

Oh and expressing is AWFUL. When I went back to work after 9 months EBF I could only express 200ml in the 10 hours I was Away. Pumps are nowhere near as good as babies at getting milk and mum produces milk to a babies demand, not a pumps. I have heard good things about the industrial pumps they can lend you when your baby is in neonatal though

My baby did latch himself on. As I said, I was really lucky that breastfeeding was really physically easy for me - I also got no soreness at all. That's all it is, though, luck. I feel like in so much of the physical side of motherhood - how easily you conceive, what your pregnancy is like, how easily you can breastfeed, even how your baby sleeps, gains weight and meets physical milestones - people are determined to attribute to their own personal virtue and effort stuff that is actually just dumb luck.

Yeah it’s our only option really lisa, although I’m tempted to take him to another bf drop in next week to see if they can help me coax him back to the boob! Who knows? Might work. We’re only a few months away from my (self imposed) deadline of 1yo to stop pumping.

I’m quite lucky as I only pump two or three times a day and get all his feeds. I have good supply, but no joy with latching 🤷‍♀️.

Is totally dumb luck

Surely the WHO definition of exclusive breastfeeding is only important if it’s WHO collecting the breastfeeding stats in the U.K.? Which it doesn’t seem to be...

I wanted to breastfeed but had loads of problems from the start. I ended up combination feeding for 3 months until it seemed pointless keeping going.

I had lots of support from my mum and others but zero support from professionals and that is why I gave up. I knew there were latch issues but there was no 1:1 support available. Until proper support is prioritised for NHS funding, I can't see how breastfeeding rates will increase.

I'm still breastfeeding my 4 year old and am well aware that a lot of people aren't comfortable with this (though I don't do it in public). My health visitor told me I could stop after 6 months, strongly implying I should. My GP told me I should stop as well (no particular reason), as "there are no benefits past six weeks".

Glint, no it isn't. About 44% of babies are breastfed at 6-8 weeks

1. The lack of support from parents, ‘is he feeding again? I think you are spoiling him’. Father leaving the room for every feed so you feel like you should be segregated from the family for the 12 hours a day that newborn is latched on

1. Classes and literature suggesting your baby will need every 3-4 hours for 20-30 minutes. It’s unrealistic for most bf babies and if your baby hasn’t read the books then you feel like you are doing something wrong.

1. Strange prudish attitude in UK. Why does anyone care that you can see a quarter inch of nipple for the two seconds before he latches?

1. Pressure to express post partum. I had an argument with a HCA at 5am (after a 3rd degree tear) about why I should be expressing. I get that it works for some people but for the majority of your nipple is sore then it’s a major relief to express and get a break but when the reality of how much work expressing is hits then it’s not always sustainable long term.

1. Guilt pushed on mums for not wanting time out for themselves. Keeping baby close is seen as ‘making them clingy’ and mum is labelled a control freak for attachment parenting even if it’s what feels natural to them.

1. The promotion that bf makes your baby smarter which is not backed by a whole lot of evidence and the ‘fed is best’ camp are pulling it apart. If they focused on the reduced rate of breast cancer for mum and no periods for a year I’d be sold!

Is totally dumb luck

What would be luck about it?

That the UK is consistently one of the worst countries in the world for breastfeeding is not (bad) luck. It’s as we’ve already said, culture and support and god knows what else. Some countries have a breastfeeding rate of over 90% so it cannot be luck.
And yes there are always going to be a small percentage of people who don’t have sufficient breast tissue or whose babies have serious latching issues and maybe would have died in times gone by or in other countries.

For me it was nothing cultural. Most of my friends breastfed, my family have all done it etc. I was always going to breastfeed and felt well informed about the fact it might be challenging etc. Why it didn’t work for me was:

1. it hurt more than labour. I used to dread each feed as I knew I’d be in a lot of pain.
2. my baby was failing to thrive. We had visits every day to weigh and provide support for feeding but it didn’t really help.
3. breastfeeding support in postnatal was rubbish and confusing. I was totally overwhelmed as the advice was different each time. There was one night I asked for help and the midwife on duty basically told me to sod off. I phone my husband in tears at 3am and he came back in and stayed with me.
4. no-one seemed to be able to give advice about mixed feeding, expressing or other tools like nipple shields.
5. failing to feed was so distressing for both my baby and me. It was not good for my mental health
6. I was on a 2 hour regime of feed (and fail) express and then formula,before I even left the hospital. Moving solely to formula was the biggest positive thing I did for my mental health. My baby was happy and I were happy.

Next time round I would try and feed again but be more relaxed if it didn’t work out. I’d also do more research into expressing and try and keep that going longer. While I was expressing I was struggling to keep my supply up and I was gradually down to 5-10 ml for a 30 minute session which didn’t seem worth it .

No one was saying that breastfeeding rates are dumb luck, cooking - just that how easily breastfeeding comes to you is. Completely agree that for the majority of women from whom it's at least a little difficult for it's the support they receive that determines whether they continue, so the final breastfeeding rate is a product of that rather than luck.

I get annoyed by the assumption everyone can do it. I had no, literally no, liquid, including colostrum, for about 3 or 4 days. My baby had jaundice. And tongue tie. And, it turns out, autism, which I think could also make it more difficult. The only thing that cures the jaundice is liquid. Better to bottle feed than not feed. I expressed eventually when milk came in but baby never properly latched so yes it makes one job into two...but at least she got some breast milk.

To PP to exclusively pump - amazing! I did it for a month (baby randomly refused to latch for a month between 8-12w, now 9mo and bfs happily) and it nearly broke me, even with hospital grade pump.

I think there are three huge problems in the UK:

• standard of post natal care is utterly, utterly appalling. I was completely ignored post CS and taught myself to BF using a book (The Miskin Method) propped up on my massive swollen belly. Also trying to establish bfing whilst someone else’s useless haribo-eating DH in the bay opposite stared at me was really fun
• no education on how bfing works and how constantly topping up with formula will sabotage your chances. I get that formula top ups save lives and wouldn’t hesitate if needed but I’ve seen so many friends top up because Baby is feeding too long/too often. This is normal!!!

-Paternity leave being 2 weeks is not adequate support for a new bfing mother (or ff mother for that matter). I only managed to do it because we scrimped and saved for DH to have 2 months paternity leave so he was supporting 24/7. I wonder how different bfing rates are in Sweden with their better offering for new dads? That being said, I do feel a little about some acquaintances who ‘can only afford 1 week of pat leave’ but yet have £1000+ prams etc etc (I get these might be bought by family though)

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it (glanced through the thread) but for us DS tongue tie was the reason we didn't BF. I started immediately & didn't notice anything, but the day after birth it was clear he was struggling a bit. And it bloody hurt. Not just a 'bloody hell i don't like that' pain, this was pain that made me cry every time latched, it would make my toes curl. My MW & a BF consultant visited me on day 4 at my request & both stopped me mid feed attempt because they could see how shit it was. Bottle was slightly better but not much. The referral to get it cut took 10 days in total during which I struggled to express. By the time he had his tongue tie cut I was getting nothing by expressing. After a couple of days trying we made the decision to stop as it was just bumming me out & DS was used to a bottle.

I can't say for sure, of course, but I can't help wonder if we would have been better able if the referral was done faster. And I know that is likely a direct result of NHS funding or lack of

I did see folk mention the old pain line, I was fed that too. 'If it hurts you're doing something wrong' is so dangerous in terms of mentally prepping mums...it can & does hurt even if everything is spot on! People just need to be honest with that one

For me because I didn't want to

And went back to work after 6 weeks

I think one issue is that whenever breastfeeding is promoted on social media, there seems to be a response from many saying it’s guilt tripping ff mothers and a fed baby is a happy baby and it’s another way to make people feel bad. It means the narrative changes from the benefits of bf being promoted to having to explain that no one is having a dig at those who have to use formula.

I think in some European countries it is just the norm, so they have less anxiety around it. No one would say 'are you going to 'try' and breastfeed', it's just assumed most will do it and it will be fine.
This is only based on talking to my SIL who is from and lives in Central European country. She was just so relaxed about it all, and it was her first baby, and I guess that was because also her family all breastfed and majority of people she knew too.
Talking to her about it is so different to talking to UK friends about it, it is a real difference in attitudes. Most first time mums I know will say 'I would like to, I'll see how I get on', where as my SIL was just very matter of fact that she would be, and that was end of it. No lack of confidence or uncertainty.