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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU the high skilled immigration salary threshold

123 replies

Tantrumschmantrum · 04/10/2018 23:32

The government are looking at a minimum threshold at how much you would earn as a highly skilled immigrant (over 30k) BUT then they keep bringing up that we need nurses, which is a skilled profession where the top end of their salary to my knowledge barely meets this threshold. Is it just me or is this ridiculous?

OP posts:
NicoAndTheNiners · 05/10/2018 07:54

The head of women and childrens at my hospital is band 8 so the only post I can imagine being band 9 would be the chief nurse/nurse director position. So one per hospital? Maybe a few more in big hospitals?

Troels · 05/10/2018 07:55

Most nurses never get above a band 5, it's all designed that way, if they can keep you lower on the band 5 scale they will it saves money obviously.
Nurses should be a seperate visa so they can still come and work here it's a specialist skill and doesn't pay enough.

dalmatianmad · 05/10/2018 07:56

Macosie I'm not sure you completely understand the AFC banding?
A newly qualified band 5 nurse starts on approx 22k.

Most nurses are band 5's and not 6's.

I've been a band 6 sister for many years and I don't know of a band 9 nurse within my hospital.

BG2015 · 05/10/2018 07:57

And teachers

NicoAndTheNiners · 05/10/2018 07:59

I read an article about last year's midwifery recruitment figures. 3000 new midwives qualified but 2970 left the profession. This is WTE figures. Retention is definitely a major problem and getting worse. And now students are having to pay tuition fees recruitment onto degrees is becoming an issue. Applications for nurse training down by a third and local uni laying off nurse lecturers as not enough students.

NicoAndTheNiners · 05/10/2018 08:00

Even doctors are going to struggle to meet the threshold.

hula008 · 05/10/2018 08:00

Clearing up some stuff in this thread:

You don't get Band 9 Nurse roles. You may get nurses working in Band 9 roles but they won't be working as a nurse.

Most nurses are band 5.

Median salary is £23000

Band 5 nurses start on £22k, Band 6 start on £28.

Band 6 isn't a "management" level, but it is a senior one.

HCAS is high cost area supplement, not healthcare assistant. Meaning that is a London salary where living costs are high.

FruitCider · 05/10/2018 08:03

Pre tax! Because of student loan and pension contributions I take home £1683 a month.

counterpoint · 05/10/2018 08:04

From what I know, band 9 nurses are only there to cut costs. Find ways to discharge patients quickly to meet time frames etc. They are purely management and not comparable to consultants who have to save lives as a priority.

Or am I too cynical?

FruitCider · 05/10/2018 08:05

Band 6 isn't a "management" level, but it is a senior one

When I covered the band 6 post for 3 months last year I was 20% clinical and 80% managerial. I dropped back to a band 5 because I missed patient contact.

babycatcher411 · 05/10/2018 08:07

@counterpoint not that cynical. My comparison to consultants was meant from the perspective of how long they work/study to get there. It's a very senior post, few and far between and you don't just walk into it.

DieAntword · 05/10/2018 08:10

Can someone explain to me why anyone who isn't from a third world country lacking in basic amenities would become a nurse when it’s so low paid and has such awful working conditions. I get that helping others is a motivator but it takes a special kind of person to live a miserable life of endless work, stress and poverty just for the chance to help people.

FaithInfinity · 05/10/2018 08:11

I’ve never heard of a Band 9 nurse. Our head of nursing for the entire trust is an 8c. He’s been qualified for about 15 years and rose through the ranks relatively quickly.

Ha ha yes come into nursing for the money Grin good one! Barely had a pay rise since I got to top of band 5 several years ago. I trained with a bursary. I can’t imagine trying to clear £30k of debt from training as well. Bear in mind it’s very difficult to work while training due to the hours you do on placement.

NicoAndTheNiners · 05/10/2018 08:14

Well stepping back even ten years working conditions weren't as bad and relative pay compared to the private sector I guess was better. Many years of pay freezes is taking effect, workload has increased, conditions have worsened.

People have been hanging in hoping it will improve but as retention figures show they're now giving up and leaving.

People start their training with no real understanding of the job. I certainly see people qualify and never work.

Babdoc · 05/10/2018 08:16

I thought most of the immigrant labour we require is at the minimum wage end of the spectrum - fruit pickers, waiters, cleaners, care staff etc. We have hardly any unemployment in the U.K. at present, so no spare pool of British workers to do those jobs. How are we going to recruit these people in future?

MyBrexitGoesOnHoliday · 05/10/2018 08:20

It’s not just nurses or doctors though.
It's the barristas, carers, fruit pickers.
There is a reason why there are so many ‘immigrants’ working in those areas. And it’s not because there are so many jobs around that British people are been choosy.
The reality is that very few people are actually happy to do those jobs altogether. And that’s not going to change becuase the UK is out if the EU.

I have to say, it nearly feels like the government is basically saying the British population can’t be trained at high level enough (or we don’t want to spend that money to do so) so we will keep most of them in lower skilled work instead....

cheminotte · 05/10/2018 08:22

The NHS has been recruiting abroad for years. I worked for them about 15 years ago and they went off to India to recruit.

brookshelley · 05/10/2018 08:22

What's also going to happen is that highly talented overseas students will be made to leave as even the best and brightest won't be earning 30K out of the gate.

MilkTrayLimeBarrel · 05/10/2018 08:24

With all the talk about tuition fees and the country needing to train more people as doctors and nurses, has any politician suggested that courses which are actually beneficial to the country should be publicly funded? I am talking medical school, nursing school, engineering, law, etc. Those university courses which, let's be honest, are not really benefiting the country (I won't name any so as not to offend!), should be paid for by the student.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 05/10/2018 08:24

Is it £30k, or is it £50k? I've seen both and I've also seen that it's £50k for the primary and £30k for a spouse.

If it's £50k, that knocks out a huge number of teaching staff as well, and junior doctors.

It's a ridiculous, arbitrary sum that shows that the only value the Tories place on people is their monetary worth. The job they do, their value to society, is worth fuck all.
They are introducing plutocracy and getting away with it. We'll be back to mediaeval times before you know it. and seem about right Angry

FruitCider · 05/10/2018 08:24

In America nurses are paid $73500 a year on average, that's £56300 a year. Now tell me uk nurses are on a good salary? X

DieAntword · 05/10/2018 08:25

I’d happily be a barista. Fruit picking is not something I could fit in with my lifestyle so I wouldn’t do that. I did have a job as a carer once, I didn’t last sadly. The autistic man I was supposed to be looking after told me he didn’t like me and I didn’t have the emotional resilience at the time to let it slide off my back.

Nursing is a profession these days though. Not like a barista which anyone can do. You can’t just walk into it and have a go.

cheminotte · 05/10/2018 08:26

I do realise India isn’t in the EU!

MyBrexitGoesOnHoliday · 05/10/2018 08:27

Also I have very big doubt about the low level of unemployment in the U.K.
If it was, wages wouod go up and wouod have done a long time ago because wouod have had CHOICE.
What we have isn’t low unemployment, it’s a mix of people not claims until they have to (because the system is awful), having zero hour contract or part time job that don’t cover bills.

That’s also the only reason I can think off that the government is happy to stick to highly skilled people. Because there's actually a pool of people that shouod be able to do all those jobs (on paper - it’s nearly impossible to recruit carers for example...).
Seeing the different schemes around atm, I wouodnt be surprised of such a scheme will tell people you have to do or you will loose your benefits (and be told you are lazy etc etc)

cheminotte · 05/10/2018 08:28

Removing bursaries for nurses is very recent though. There was a campaign against it but it was unsuccessful.