To have realised that the Tories actively want a no deal Brexit.
tenredthings · 03/10/2018 21:56
It's becoming increasingly obvious that the Tories are actively seeking a no deal Brexit and that they will do everything they can to blame any ensuing chaos on the EU.
MarmiteTermite · 03/10/2018 21:58
I don’t think most of them want no deal but Boris/JRM and the rest of his cronies do. I think TM wants a deal and really hope she can get one as no deal will he an utter disaster
tenredthings · 03/10/2018 22:08
They have been told clearly since the beginning that the terms of their deals are unacceptable and yet they carry on regardless. Even in the event of a no deal crash out someone's going to have to create a border between Ireland and the Uk. I think the Tories have realised that it's a disastrous situation whichever way it pans out and that the safest way to hang onto power is to crash out without a deal, hype up the jingoistic Us and them rhetoric and say it's all the EU's fault.
pendeen123 · 09/10/2018 12:44
Actually there will not be a deal because Germany and France don't want one as there is no way they want Brexit to be anything but a total disaster;if it were to be a success then it would leave their dreams of a European empire in tatters and whilst it is true that no deal would harm particularly France (Germany is powerful and could take the hit)it would be no way as damaging as a large scale of exodus of countries from the EU which they have both created in their own political image and have used as a mass market for their own goods - remember Germany is the only country in the EU with a trading surplus with every single state in the EU,ergo every one of the other 26 has a negative trade surplus with Germany.
gendercritter · 09/10/2018 13:04
I can't believe it. I can't see that any party would want to screw the country over so badly. It would do them such harm in the long run.
I think both sides are willy waving and calling the others' bluff so as to get the best deal for themselves. They're playing a very risky, very stupid game and it risks backfiring massively with our country being the side which loses out.
Doobigetta · 09/10/2018 13:10
I think Corbyn threatening to trigger an election if Labour don’t like the deal guaranteed that no Tories will rebel against whatever the majority end up with. Even the strongest proEU of them are more scared of a Corbyn government than anything else. What I can’t work out is whether Corbyn knew that when he said it, and whether he actually thinks he could win an election.
Neshoma · 09/10/2018 13:46
Labour under Corbyn don't stand a chance. The party could have really gone to town over Brexit but sit on the sidelines.
Chocolatehamper · 09/10/2018 17:10
Pedeen has hit the nail on the head. It's not a case of they need us more than we need them or vice versa- more that the other EU countries that are on the fence about whether to stay or go - Italy, Spain, Greece, the Netherlands etc - are watching to see how it plays out. If the EU 'give in' and agree terms, we may well see an end to the union as it stands. Not a bad thing in my view.
AndhowcouldIeverrefuse · 09/10/2018 17:17
pendeen does it really look to you like the government has been trying to make a success of Brexit?
Any country who ever thought of leaving the EU is probably watching Brexit unfold with horror and taking frantic notes on how NOT to do it!
And OP I think you are wrong. The government don't actively want a no deal - but no deal might happen because they are too ignorant, arrogant and incompetent to understand what's going on.
Quietrebel · 09/10/2018 19:06
The EU, and specifically France and Germany, have made it clear they want to work with the UK but not at the expense of the core principles of the union. Surely thats fair enough.
The issue is the uncompromising nature of hard brexiteers' vision which forces the EU and the UK into their respective corners. If the EU gives in, its likely to self destruct; if the uk doesnt get a deal, it self destructs. It's a real tragedy with no winners. I think the fatal misunderstanding on the part of the UK is to see the EU as a mere tool to be used or discarded at will according to the UKs own needs. A purely business-like arrangement. That's not what it means to the other members, and especially France and Germany. The EU was set up to avoid war on the continent as it had experienced 3 times since the creation of modern Germany. The UK simply cannot win that argument.
ArrivisteRevolt · 09/10/2018 19:14
Everyone wants a deal so it doesn’t look like an embarrassing waste of a negotiation.
And there will be a deal. There is all ready a deal over airlines - it is a uni-sector deal (?! or something).
More people than Theresa May are involved. Tons of lawyers and wonks etc. It is not the ALL OR NOTHING bellowing that is going on. However small, a deal will be done.
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