SO....Am I being unreasonable here...

[BlueStockingUK]

Thought long & hard before posting. Have decided to do just that. Recent current affairs and also very much highlighted topics on mn re Women-pronouns-trans.
I've been following the 'hype' and thought PP was absolutely right, BUT I wanted to learn more about her hatred & contempt towards a particular person " Susie Green" of course, like thousands, I was aghast to read she took her child to Thailand and supported/paid for castration.
However, after reading many published variations of this story, this really isn't as black and white and abusive as highlighted.
The story in a nutshell reads, from very early childhood/nursery/school/GP/Psychologist's/therapist's all agreed/identified her child as " in the wrong body" The only reason why this op was done in Thailand and not UK was the age under law as 18.
This meant the 'child' would go through puberty. The fact the child had the op at 16 meant they retained/didn't fully reach their more masculine traits. After watching/reading the 'child' who was castrated, now 25, they are so, so ,so grateful for the decision their family made, has no regrets, is happy. The mother has other children, they have never felt they were born in the wrong body, she didn't pack them off to Thailand. So, knowing this, why has she been vilified?

With regards to transgender rights and the belief of many, this now takes precedence over women, "adult human female". This is a whole other issue which is WRONG.
But regardless of whether trans people are men or women, where is the empathy, understanding and even acceptance of something you will never experience or never feel.

Rather than attack, threaten, swear and call names, can you help me understand, why I do see these issues as completely separate and other's do not?

I don’t know about the case you mention OP. I do have huge sympathy and support for those who have body dysmorphia. I would always support someone who was transgender, and have done. So that is one thing.
I do think some childrenand people want to change sex because they are trapped in a very stereotypical view of what it is to be Male or female. However, I don’t have the right to tell someone what they think, how they feel. That is another thing.
I do think some young children are being encouraged to go down the trans route rather than have their stereotypical views on Male and female challenged. That’s another thing.
I do think there IS a safeguarding issue in self Id. There WILL be predators who exploit self ID. There WILL be, and it’s ridiculously disingenuous to say there won’t be. There is a minority group trans activists who deny this and deny women the right to their own space. That is the final thing. I am not transphobic.
The trouble is, there IS a conflict between women’s rights and trans rights re self ID. It needs to be RESOLVED, not ignored.

Susie Green feels that procedures such as the one she put her child though (at her authority) are the primary way to deal with any confusion about who you are. Despite the fact it is major life changing surgery on a minor that is appropriately - illegal in the UK. It is now also illegal in Thailand after her trip there.

Most people - including most all women on FWR - believe watchful waiting and helping the child with their concerns or issues is a better first option.

No I’m sorry I don’t see your point.

I don’t believe any diagnosis of any type of dysphoria should result in the castration or amputation of healthy body parts. And to do it to a child is beyond the pale.

And Thailand disagrees as well as they increased the minimum age to 18 shortly after Jackie had the operation.

Isn't there a whole board for this kind of thing?

YABU for dragging it to AIBU when I've only just worked out how to hide the feminism threads

Yes there is a whole board for people to ask if they are being unreasonable. It’s called AIBU and you’re on it.

I've read your OP and I can't work out what your AIBU is. Perhaps you could clarify?

@DianaPrincessOfThemyscira 🙄

The AIBU is just an excuse to drag this stuff over here when many people are trying to avoid it. As per a recent thread deletion thread

The OP is not a regular on any of the FWR boards.

Could be an honest error; could be a fishing expedition.

Either way OP, ask MNHQ to move your post if you want to get some less irritated responses.

Fair enough. Didn't even consider that before I jumped in with my YABU!

Oops, honest error then, I'm not fishing. The AIBU was because I have found the 'general' consensus and especially very pro PP on mn about her views and I was/am to a point.
But aibu to disagree with her stance on SG( particularly with her permission to castrate) am unfamiliar with her career since.
Every other point I've heard from her ( PP ) resonates profoundly. Just not this. I do lack understanding but, given what I've read, I felt much empathy.
I am though, very aware many other people, disturbed psychologically/physically/emotionally with other body parts, filled with loathing, fear and disgust have had this removed albeit a limb and not genitalia.
I agree, in most cases that it would be more responsible and ethical for these irreversible operations be done as adults. SG and child would and does fundamentally disagree.
I understand this has been a frequent feed.
I have felt very much a minority for not concurring the feelings of PP on this particular point.

Please ask for this to be moved.

You will get some considered responses if yu do.

But many posters here won't know who PP or S are, or what it is you are agreeing / disgreeing with.

I'm not going to judge because I have never met a trans person and I dont have a trans child. None of us know what we would do until we go through this

But regardless of whether trans people are men or women, where is the empathy, understanding and even acceptance of something you will never experience or never feel.

Isn't that sentence the absolute heart of the whole thing though?

Men will never experience what it is to be a woman. Women will never experience what it is to be a man.

Trans should be accepted and not discriminated against, but for being trans not for changing sex because however much they want to they can't do that.

We can treat them according to how they present, but for safety, privacy and dignity some things need to remain segregated by sex. That's not hate or bigotry, it's common sense.

I am watching a reception age child, a friend of my DDs, being socially transitioned to a boy by well meaning parents worried by the information they have received from mermaids. SG misuses statistics and essentially threatens parents with their child's suicide unless they follow her lead. Her motivations are worrying, there is too much at stake for her personally to actually consider she might be wrong. PP's world will not crumble if she realises what she's done is wrong, SGs will.

It is very clear from SG's own Ted talk that she was more comfortable changing her child's body to fit her stereotypes than confronting her own ideas of masculine and feminine. She cannot self reflect enough to entertain the possibility that if they had let their boy play with dolls, he might have been a happy, healthy, feminine man, or that, even if untrue in her case, might be true for other people. It's push, push, push... do it my way.

Also, her child is not yet of an age to appreciate the enormity of discarding your fertility. I don't think we can yet conclude it was a resounding success.

I only stumbled into FWR because of this situation, mermaids and how unreal it felt (my DD is a tomboy, so the parents have spoken to me about it in depth). The child I know transitioning had no emotional problems and would have simply been a tomboy ten years ago. Even if SG is right in the extreme cases, she shouldn't be medicalising every boy that likes pink. She doesn't know when to stop and nobody is stepping in to stop her.

Let's look at a similar but reversed situation, BlueStockingUK. A father takes his daughter out of the country for the most extreme form of FGM: the total cutting away of her external genitals and the sewing closed of the resulting aperture.

Would that be OK? Would that father be a suitable person to advise the government and head a charity?

Or would you expect that father to be prosecuted?

Sorry Prawn, this is not in any way" similar" to FGM!!! and it's utter tosh like this that's driving me crackers! Please be factual at least.
The op was agreed in the uk via qualified professionals, she's explained why she took him at 16 to Thailand, would have been done here in the UK 2 years later.
However, most posters have been able to give me further clarity, their thoughts and I feel a bit more informed. As I've previously written, this should absolutely in the most cases be done as a consenting adult ( not 16 yr old )
I had only ever heard the horror of abuse, not back story and although highly questionable and emotive, has many vitirolic opinions and this is why I was not supporting PP's particular stance on this.

Mermaids, I feel is a whole other can of worms, but I do note, this organisation, have been particularly successful with funding particularly with the DofE and have a diverse range of professionals as trustees.
I am truly very interested in what she is saying, but struggle to agree on this op.

PP has been highly successful in raising awareness of female women's rights currently and what else is happening to affect these rights. This being directly from the flood of initiatives, rights, policies and legislation on trans.people.
I will do some more reading.