Teachers

[Flatwhite32]

Is it just me, or have there been quite a few threads on here recently criticising/questioning teachers? I'm a teacher (currently on maternity leave) and while we aren't perfect, I find it demoralising that I work so hard in a job made extremely difficult by the government (funding cuts and stupid, pointless bureaucratic policies) yet the respect for teachers from some members of the public seems to be decreasing. I know in some instances teachers are unreasonable (I commented on a thread a few weeks ago where the teacher in question was being very unreasonable), but I am finding that more and more parents complain when I tell their child off, for example, or refuse to read to their child because 'that's just the teacher's responsibility, not mine'. It really gets me down sometimes!

Mumsnet has always hated teachers. I think it stems from the demographic of its users. Before, it was full of middle-class know-it-alls (eg I know better than the teacher and my child's an angel) and post PB it's full of rentagobs (eg, I'm going to march down there and give the effing teacher a piece of my effing mind and I might slap the bitch as well and my child's an angel)

Twas ever thus.

There are some appalling teachers. Absolutely. My daughter has 2. There are some wonderful teachers. There are a lot of normal people doing a normal job.

The thing is, on MN, the vast majority of teacher threads don't talk about the real problems that there absolutely are in the profession, but about everyday minutiae. If I started a thread every time dd was told off I'd never be off MN, I wouldn't have time to go to work. What always tickles me with these threads, is the "absolutely livid" mammy only ever comes back to update to say the HT was totally on her side and the teacher will be in the stocks on the village green come Saturday. Funny that.

I suppose it's human nature- people will start a thread about Junior being told off, but they won't start a thread about all the good things that Junior's teacher does.

No experience of schools as kids not school age

But anyone who knows a teacher knows how hard they work and how much funding has been cut in recent years. I think there is a website that shows how much funding has been cut per school in recent years and it's quite shocking

When I was at school if a teacher told you off you'd get a second bollocking when you got home. I just find it mad if people really believe their kid is well behaved and the teacher is 'picking on them' and so they shouldn't be punished. That they believe their kid over a professional adult who is in charge of them. My 3 year old can already describe situations where she's in the wrong, from a completely different perspective putting the blame on everyone else! Even if they don't necessarily agree with the punishment, while they are misbehaving under someone else's watch, then they need to accept the consequences. I don't know what they think shouting at the teacher will achieve, all it shows surely is that the kid can disrespect the teacher and that kicking up a stink let's you get your own way.

Yes I'm sure there are teachers that do pick on some kids but I would assume this is not the norm. And if there is an issue there are ways to go about resolving it. If a teacher is really picking on your kid, I would have thought abusing them is only more likely to make it worse

Sirzy makes valid points- as I said, dd has 2 atrociously bad teachers. They are my colleagues. Next week the class parents are going to complain to the HT about one of them. I won't be putting my name to the complaint (more than my job's worth) but I do support them wholeheartedly. She's shite.

There's good teachers and bad teachers, fair teachers and horrible ones.
The good outweigh the bad in my experience.

I think parents are absolutely right if they have a concern to talk to school, ask questions etc. It's part of professional dialogue.

What is infuriating (and I think perhaps crops up on MN because like in school, it's usually the fuming, frothing, unreasonable types you see/hear more) is the sizable minority of parents who think rules are optional, they don't like uniform so don't buy uniform items, tell their child not to attend detention. People who think the behaviour policy should be over applied to Timmy and their child should never have to sit near anyone who isn't a naice middle class hard working student, whilst also complaining if their child is held to the standard of the behaviour policy because "they are a nice kid who doesn't normally break rules".
There's the ones who assume 'my child would never lie' and go on MN lamenting that teachers are bullies who think they are gods & love telling everyone to go to the head (over something trivial) and if the head won't see you then threaten with Ofsted so they'll take you seriously. They also suggest dropping safeguarding into angry emails in a bid to make it sound threatening too. They make ridiculous claims that MN is full of teacher worshipers, which seems to translate as 'look at all these rational, reasonable and polite parents who support school and politely raise concerns through the appropriate channels'.

But they are a minority. (Some schools a majority but on the whole a minority)

What I always remember is that a tiny percentage of students and parents can take up the most time and the most headspace if you let it. In reality, most parents are fabulous and apply reasonable common sense. They know kids are kids. They want their child to achieve and want to work with us for it to happen. Most students are a delight. They accept when they've made a mistake. They are polite and funny and utterly wondeful. I find remembering that and making it a personal policy to direct my mental energies there helps.

In the 12 years I’ve been teaching I’ve only had one parent who was genuinely rude and a bully. Everyone else has just been worried about their child and need to feel like they are being listened to and taken seriously. I don’t take things personally. Then again I am a good teacher and am pretty confident and assertive. You may find it more difficult if you are more sensitive. Teachers need to develop a thick skin.

Op if you have parents shouting at teachers in the playground then I would say you had an SLT problem to be honest. Shouting at a teacher is totally unacceptable and your SLT should be on hand to step in. This is very rare where I work and I have a very wide demographic of parents!

Also, I want to seriously LOL when people say they know their children best. I'm sure all teachers have had that moment when they are describing how the child is in the classroom and the parents will say "she's not like that at home"
Well d'oh.

I support the good teachers that support DC and ignore the rest especially when they suggest something based on their "knowledge" of DC and they are absolutely wrong

Also, I want to seriously LOL when people say they know their children best
^This

I absolutely do know my child best. When you have spent 13 years bringing up a non verbal severely disabled child you usually do. He can't come home and tell me things but I know better than anyone if there is something wrong and what it might be. My biggest issues with schools and professionals in general have been with those who won't recognise the expertise of parents who are in this situation. I have always been polite and reasonable but I haven't always been treated with the same respect in return.

The problem is that everyone's been to school so know how it should be done! I was once told by a Vicar's child, 10, that her Daddy said that teaching is a part-time job to which I pointed out that Vicars did an hour on Sunday morning and the odd baptism, wedding and burial. He wasn't a happy bunny!
Unless parents see school as a collaboration between the parent and the school it'll never change, I doubt they tell their Doctor, Dentist etc how to do their job!
A lot of the issues are about schools having to implement external legislation and having to pick up the slack regarding poor parents. Do you seriously think that I wanted to be an extension of the Social Services? If teachers could stop wasting their time on social issues and concentrate on the job more progress would be made.

When our eldest was starting the school in which both of us worked she insisted that we had to go to the evening meeting for parents. The Head talked about relationship between school and home and said' Don't take everything your child tells you about what's happening in school at face value and we won't take what they tell us about what's happening at home at face value' . Some shocked faces.

No wonder no-one wants to teach here:

amp.theguardian.com/education/2018/oct/02/never-return-teach-england-refuge-abroad

Present day teachers are not as rigorously educated as those even in the relative past. Far too many make grammatical and spelling errors and have a sloppy attitude to dress and personal presentation.

They were once regarded as professionals because they behaved as professionals but now standards have slipped hugely.

There are other factors at play, of course, but the above cannot be ignored. Or defended.

Also, I want to seriously LOL when people say they know their children best

Attitudes like these from teachers probably cause a lot of such posts.

If I had a quid for every time a teacher told me nothing was wrong with my now diagonsed child just because they didn't see certain behaviours at school. A good teacher will understand that just as they may not see abc at school, parents may not see xyz at home. They will listen and help build a bigger picture of the child instead of lol-ing at us

People do question teachers a lot. It sounds like an incredibly tough job.

But, I think there’s reason for that, as teachers can’t always get it absolutely right. I think parents want a more collaborative approach with teachers instead of “teacher = right, we’ll do exactly what they say, end of”.

That said, I imagine you get some parents who are right treats. Don’t tar all parents with the same brush though. You wouldn’t want to be lumped in with all the shite teachers, just because you’re a teacher too.

tillytrotter1 some teachers don't understand it is a collaboration between parents and teachers.

I have huge respect for teachers, but I do think sometimes, they regard themselves as a special case, which doesn't do them any favours. For example, I often hear teachers talking about working after school hours, as if this makes them very unusual. In my experience, most people in professional roles do this

I thought you were a teacher, Aspen? You used to say you were.

I like my daughters teacher. I think they are mostly wonderful, with the occasional poor teacher.

According to some my daughters reception teacher wasn't very good, but I thought she was marvellous. She just wasn't pushy, and made for my daughter having an enjoyable well rounded reception year.

I quite like my kids teachers and all their past teachers. There was one at the end of last year who wouldn't be my favourite but she had just come back from maternity leave and was probably shattered herself. I also love the schools secretaries. I think they also take alot of abuse.
Actually about to make a cake for my dds teacher. Before anyone says they won't want, I promise they are always happy to see food coming from me. I think its nice to show you appreciate them and especially helping my dd who is going through a bit of a detachment phase at the moment.

I think on a parenting board like this you are going to see a lot of posts with people posting about school related concerns, but there are probably a silent majority that don't have teacher complaints so don't post.

A bit like before dd started secondary i found all the posts about bullying really worrying, when people with kids who are happy and fine at school probably wouldn't start posts about it.
Having said that if teachers are saying parents have got more difficult in recent years, then there must be something in it. Not sure why it would be. All i can think of is people might be egging each other on on facebook/whatsapp groups. Maybe it could be to do with people's own schooling experience? I'm from a generation that still remembers corporal punishment from my own school days so I'm less likely to think a detention is incredibly harsh and i remember when answering teachers back or parents complaining to schools was rare, but maybe younger generations of parents had a different experience so deal with schools differently.
Just a few random musings that are probably contradicting each other!

All i can think of is people might be egging each other on on facebook/whatsapp groups. Maybe it could be to do with people's own schooling experience?
Both are true I think.

There's some who think that because they have a dislike of authority, they encourage their child to be argumentative but they rent and it as 'I don't expect my child to have blonde obedience to authority. If a teacher can't explain an instruction then why should my child follow it?' Aka - I don't care if my child disrupts learning, I will back them not following simple instructions because somewhere in my head that's my way of scoring a point against 'schools'.

Then there are the group chat/Facebook group type issues. Aka. Parent one isn't happy with something small. In previous years the parent would either decide it's nothing, opt to keep an eye and raise later or would speak to the teacher. Not commonly now the parent will go to the group chat and vent, then get all hun-ed at and patted on the back, other parents with equally tiny issues pile in and before you know it there's a group of people who've created a bloody mountain out of nothing.

Just this year I've had a complaint (not an official one but people ranting and talking in the royal we) because they arent happy about an extra curricular activity not starting sooner. Zero communication with me. They took the MN approach of trying to contact senior staff. Next year I won't be running it. It's a lovely extra I do for the students but I'm not having parents dictate things I do voluntarily.

That said, I do stand by my view that the vast vast majority of parents are wondeful and supportive and brilliant to work with.

I'm not having parents dictate things I do voluntarily.

Totally understandable!

Generally though, I think the “I’m not having parents dictate to me...” and the “I’m not having teachers telling little Tarquin what to do... if they can’t explain it themselves” are equally unhelpful though. Parents taking the hump, teachers taking the hump; in both cases because nobody likes being told what to do 🤷‍♀️. It seems a hopeless case really.

I wonder what it’s like in private schools where (maybe) no teacher has to do anything voluntarily, because resources are so much more plentiful and therefore it never feels like they’re doing their schools a favour.

Then there are all the rules about attendance and strict uniform policies. Schools saying well, if you want the attend this school you have to buy the uniform, even when the choice in reality is that school or no school. Everyone seems so begrudging about everything.

Teachers don’t want to be dictated to and neither do pupils.

SallySangFroid
I'll happily have parents call me up to let me know I've made a mistake. I'll happily welcome parents calling me up to say 'it might not be on X SEND plan but one thing we've found works really well in school is...' or if they think I've missed something. We all make mistakes or overlook things.

It's reasonable to say I won't accept is parents telling me how to do my job as it's an unreasonable imposition (especially on things where we go above and beyond).

On the other hand parents saying 'I won't have anyone tell my Timmy what to do' are usually unreasonable because what s expected of Timmy is to behave themselves at school, not be rude and actually do some work. Usually when parents are of the view their child is precious and unique and doesn't have to follow rules they don't like, they tend to be the students who disrupt other children's learning.