Page 6 | Hooray ! At last Civil partnerships for heterosexual couples. So what are those who don't believe in marriage going to make of that.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 02/10/2018 19:23

Even though civil partnerships were invented specifically to not give gay people the right to enter into marriage
They now have that right... sometimes society takes time to improve. Now we have equality, why are you so against it?
Choice is a bitch, right. But if it doesn't validate your life choice I suppose it should be banned!

MinecraftHolmes · 02/10/2018 19:27

Yes, they now have that right. Civil partnerships remain the homophobic hangover.

DappledThings · 02/10/2018 19:30

Changing your name Totally optional
Being a ‘wife’ Well yes, but that only has to mean a legal status if that's all you want it too. You don't have to refer to yourself as such
Having to say ridiculous things like ‘til death parts us’ and ‘with my body I honour you’ Totally optional
Family/friends expecting to be present Same as a CP. All my friends who are in CPs have had ceremonies and receptions with large numbers of people invited. No different to any wedding I've attended
People wanting to buy you a gift As above
Wearing a ring As above and also optional

SummerGems · 02/10/2018 19:31

Its upsetting some women are unhappy that other people will be able to have rights that fits within their 'different' beliefs. I suppose these are the same women that were unhappy for gay people to have rights. except that civil partnerships were invented precisely because gay people didn’t have the right to marry. Now that gay people have the right to marry there is no need for any civil partnerships to exist. Giving civil partnerships to straight people is a step backwards and makes the statement that “it’s not fair that gays should have them, we want them toooooooo.” So it sticks two fingers up at gay rights saying that it’s not fair.*

And there is no baggage assigned to marriage that isn’t assigned to a civil partnership. You don’t have to wear a ring, you don’t have to vow to love someone, although why you wouldn’t want to is beyond me. You don’t have to change your name. But the things that marriage stands for also apply within a civil partnership, financial rights, the right to someone else’s assets on dissolution of said partnership, you being legally bound to someone.

Also there are a lot more who stand to gain from this. The entertainment industry, because let’s not pretend that people entering into a civil partnership won’t want a celebration wedding-style, and the entertainment industry will be happy to oblige I’m sure. Also, the legal profession stands to gain from this hugely as the numbers of relationships now needing to be dissolved legally will increase dramatically if many people enter into CP’s, and someone will need to handle that...

And literally the only thing which changes for the person who doesn’t want it called marriage is that it won’t b called marriage. everything else associated with marriage will still apply.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 02/10/2018 19:44

there is no baggage assigned to marriage that isn’t assigned to a civil partnership

In your opinion. Not the people who support CP. Why do you want to export your baggage to other people?

QueenofmyPrinces · 02/10/2018 19:45

What baggage does marriage have that a CP doesn’t?

Changing your name
Being a ‘wife’
Having to say ridiculous things like ‘til death parts us’ and ‘with my body I honour you’.
Family/friends expecting to be present
People wanting to buy you a gift
Wearing a ring

Why don’t people having CP want their family and friends present? What’s so bad about that?

And what’s so bad about being called a wife? Is being a husband just as awful?

I certainly my didn’t say anything about honouring my husband with my body in our wedding vows...

And what’s so bad about wearing a ring?!

If the list you’ve given is considered the baggage of marriage then you sound like you enjoy sucking the joy and happiness out of something that is very special to the people doing it.

Lottapianos · 02/10/2018 19:58

'Now that gay people have the right to marry there is no need for any civil partnerships to exist.'

For the millionth time, tens of thousands of same sex couples have CPs and many more are choosing CPs over marriage every year. Why on earth would you want to scrap CPs?

LavendarGreen · 02/10/2018 20:25

queenofmyprinces ...

what 'baggage; goes with marriage that a CP doesn't have?'

@DanglyBangly

Changing your name, Being a ‘wife.’ Having to say ridiculous things like ‘til death parts us’ and ‘with my body I honour you.’ Family/friends expecting to be present. People wanting to buy you a gift. Wearing a ring.

Pathetic. Daftest post on here.

You don't have to succumb to ANY of this. You are just being bloody-minded and ridiculous.

As a pp said, a CP is the SAME as a marriage, and everything involved can easily be THE SAME.

There is literally no need whatsover for civil partnerships. As has been said, they should have been binned as soon as gay marriage became legal. It's such a pointless pile of bollocks now.

@LottaPianos

For the millionth time, tens of thousands of same sex couples have CPs and many more are choosing CPs over marriage every year. Why on earth would you want to scrap CPs?

Source for this 'fact' you have posted please??

bananafish81 · 02/10/2018 20:26

Changing your name

I've known couples with CPs who did change their names and many many married couples who didn't.

Being a ‘wife’

I know plenty of lesbian couples with CPs who refer to their partners as wives. And as a straight couple you can happily introduce someone as your partner.

Having to say ridiculous things like ‘til death parts us’ and ‘with my body I honour you’

I didn't in my civil marriage. That's a religious thing ceremony vow I think? So optional.

Family/friends expecting to be present

My civil marriage had just a couple of witnesses. I've been to CP ceremonies and celebrations that were lavish affairs with tonnes of guests

People wanting to buy you a gift

We didn't have gifts. I've bought CP gifts

Wearing a ring

You can wear a ring or not wear a ring whether married, CP or unmarried. It's entirely optional.

The difference is literally just branding.

bananafish81 · 02/10/2018 20:30

Marriage is simply a contract and a change of legal status. That's it.

So is CP. Just with different branding.

One has historic patriarchal baggage. Parliament didn't used to admit women. Or universities. Plenty of institutions have historical patriarchal baggage. Most of society does!

CP has very recent homophobic baggage

Allineedyoutodois · 02/10/2018 20:31

Yeah, we’ll done achieving the less-than- marrriage compromise we gays had to accept as a step to marriage equality...

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/10/2018 20:36

Why, thank you, DappledThings!

DanglyBangly · 02/10/2018 20:39

Pathetic. Daftest post on here.

Well, thanks for pissing all over a valid attempt to debate and explain.

The baggage of marriage (for me) is the expectations. Your family want to be there. You change your name. Wear a ring. Accept gifts. Of course, you don't have to do all that stuff, I know that, but people can act like you're a fucking weirdo if you don't.

CPs don't have any of that stuff.

queenoftheprinces i respect all marriages and have been to many weddings and enjoyed seeing the couples so happy. I get that it's special to them and that's lovely. It doesn't mean it's special to me though.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 02/10/2018 20:41

I think some women who are married will feel less now there is a choice. I wonder why that is? Could it be that secretly they dont want to be married to their husbands but feel they had to and therefore everyone should be forced to as well.

The bitterness makes no sense.

DappledThings · 02/10/2018 20:44

CPs don't have any of that stuff

But they do! As I said before everyone I know in a CP wears rings, had a full ceremony and reception with presents. If I knew someone had had a CP with none of that I'd find it as unusual as anyone doing the same with a wedding. That it's totally their choice but unusual.

bananafish81 · 02/10/2018 20:47

The baggage of marriage (for me) is the expectations. Your family want to be there. You change your name. Wear a ring. Accept gifts. Of course, you don't have to do all that stuff, I know that, but people can act like you're a fucking weirdo if you don't.

Fair enough if that's the case amongst your family and friends

Doesn't mean that's inherent to the institution though

Amongst my peers there's no difference between marriage and CP except that CP was the poor relation. It meant a lot to me when we got married that the wording from the registrar was that marriage in this country was between two people, not one man and one woman - ie marriage equality

If you nipped down the registry office and got a CP without telling your family, do you think they would feel differently to if you'd gone in and got married without telling them? What would their expectations be if you got a CP?

Not trying to be goady, just curious!

LavendarGreen · 02/10/2018 20:48

Well, thanks for pissing all over a valid attempt to debate and explain.

I 'pissed all over it' because it was utterly ridiculous, and deserved to be mocked!

DanglyBangly · 02/10/2018 20:53

But they do! As I said before everyone I know in a CP wears rings, had a full ceremony and reception with presents. If I knew someone had had a CP with none of that I'd find it as unusual as anyone doing the same with a wedding. That it's totally their choice but unusual.

That's a fair point but is that because for those couples then, it was their way (the only way) of getting married.

Given that everyone now has the choice, I'd imagine people will have a wedding if you want all the marriage stuff and if it you don't, you just fill in the paperwork and have a CP. I agree that NOW it would be stranger to have a CP with all the ceremony, gifts and family etc.

bananafish81 · 02/10/2018 20:54

Tbh I know more people who got CPs who had lavish ceremonies and celebrations because it was such a big deal to able to formalise their relationship in the eyes of the law than had a quick in and out and sign the paperwork ceremony (trying to think of anyone I know with CP who didn't have a wedding party blowout!) - but I know plenty of married couples who got married with a couple of witnesses and didn't do any rings / name change / etc

CPs had very different meaning when you were denied ANY right to have your relationship legally recognised, so lots of people made a big deal out of being able to take vows in front of family and friends

For a straight couple who didn't want to get married you still had the CHOICE of formalising your relationship in the eyes of the law

A CP for opposite sex couples is just a rebranding of an institution they always had access to in the first place.

bananafish81 · 02/10/2018 20:57

Given that everyone now has the choice, I'd imagine people will have a wedding if you want all the marriage stuff and if it you don't, you just fill in the paperwork and have a CP

I wouldn't personally.

Because CP doesn't have the same legal recognition overseas as civil marriage does

These are just contracts. You can have, or not have, whatever trimmings you want

DanglyBangly · 02/10/2018 20:57

If you nipped down the registry office and got a CP without telling your family, do you think they would feel differently to if you'd gone in and got married without telling them? What would their expectations be if you got a CP?

I think so because they just wouldn't see it in the same way (I hope). It doesn't have the emotional weight, I guess. It's a legal transaction essentially.

LavendarGreen · 02/10/2018 20:58

@danglybangly

Given that everyone now has the choice, I'd imagine people will have a wedding if you want all the marriage stuff and if it you don't, you just fill in the paperwork and have a CP. I agree that NOW it would be stranger to have a CP with all the ceremony, gifts and family etc.

But you can get MARRIED without anyone there, (except 2 random people for witnesses,) and no fuss, no gifts, and without changing your name etc etc etc........

Your argument is holding no water. Seriously none at all.

DanglyBangly · 02/10/2018 21:05

I know that lavendar I said it upthread. You can do it without all that but it is harder because people/society have expectations and assumptions about marriage. You can ignore them, yes, but at the risk of upsetting people you love, who don't understand. I feel a CP doesn't carry the same expectations, at least not for heterosexual couples, and therefore it's easier for other people to understand and accept.

ForalltheSaints · 02/10/2018 21:06

I am of the view that since same-sex marriage was introduced, the only option should be marriage.

Though I do think that the law should allow a person to keep their birth name after marriage, not presume that a woman will adopt the man's surname.

However, as my view is not going to become the law, the OP makes a valid point about some men.

LeftRightCentre · 02/10/2018 21:08

What bananafish said, with bells on. It's still a legal contract you need to go in public to declare.