DS1 (12) driving me mad with constant noise and arguing

[churchmouse84]

This isn't new so I feel I've probably brought this on myself but I can't cope anymore.

DS1 is lovely a lot of the time but he is constantly making noise and refuses to stop.

He is currently doing his homework downstairs but instead is drumming on the table, making popping noises anything to be annoying.

I've asked him to be quiet but he is refusing.

Every simple thing we ask him to do turns into a 10 minute debate.

It's making me miserable but nothing I seem to do works.

Then I end up just shouting which makes things worse.

He doesn't care about consequences particularly and I find it difficult to enforce them for 'being annoying'.

I get upset because he knows it annoys me and just doubles down and does it more.

Help.

The best thing to do is to simply block the noise out, and while you're doing that take away his favourite things as punishment. Like technology and grounding if he usually goes out with friends. Make sure to tell his friends exactly why he's grounded as well if they come knocking for him. Don't give him pocket money if he receives some.

Don't bother arguing; that's what he wants. Don't give him a reaction other than calmly dishing out the consequences. Don't use food or homework as a punishment, though.

You're not punishing him for being annoying. You've asked him to stop politely and he hasn't. That is completely rude.

It will be hard but you'll manage!

The one thing I won’t accept is DD being rude or inconsiderate. We all have to live here so we all have to act civilly and not deliberately irritate others.

If DD refused to abide by that and stop being annoying then I’d annoy her by going in her room with a bin bag while she’s at school (it’s the one thing she doesn’t want me to do). She deliberately annoys me and I’ll deliberately annoy her back.

Deliberately winding up family members is bad behaviour and should be punished.

I don't want to be that poster, but does he/could he have ADHD or similar? Does he often struggle/refuse to be quiet or sit still?

I say that because my first thought was 'I feel you, try having 8 like that in a classroom with 20 others', and then realised that 'my' 8 usually have additional needs of some kind, which yes, makes sanctioning them tricky.

We have considered ADHD on a number of occasions but discounted it.

If it's a spectrum, he's definitely towards that end, but not enough to be diagnosed I don't think.

I actually think sugar also plays a large part. He drank a lot of squash at lunchtime (which we don't often have).

He seems to be very sensitive to sugar, hunger, tiredness which all make him worse.

Tell him to do his homework in his room.

His room is such a state that he can't get to his desk.

This is another issue which needs addressing.

As back story, I've been suffering from anxiety for many years which I'm now having treatment for.

This means I'm trying to be more assertive at home but it also means there are lots of things I've let slide over the past few years.

I'm trying to regain a bit of control but worry it's too little too late.

Its never too late to have boundaries. Own it. Own the past and where you fell down and tell him what you're going to do in the future then enforce it.

And there's nothing wrong with natural consequences. "You're deliberately annoying me with the noises you need to do your homeowork in your room". If he can't because it's a state that's on him to solve.

Thanks villagecats I feel that should have come with background music.

Do you have a husband or partner who could step in to give you a break from managing the situation?

I had to hand ds over to dh sometimes when he was being deliberately annoying to save losing my temper!

FWIW ds was definitely worse when hungry...sometimes we just seemed to get into 'self destruct mode' where he'd just keep escalating the annoyance as I escalated the sanctions- hence the need to step away. He's largely grown out of it now thank goodness!

Pumpkin that's exactly what he does.

Unfortunately DH just seems to make things worse by doubling down on sanctions and getting into a massive battle.

I'm not also sure DH models great behaviour all of the time - he is also a work in progress!

Aaaah I feel your pain. My DS13 is a noise machine, he even talks himself to sleep 🙈.
He’s literally talking all the time, humming, singing, tapping or having an inanimate object make a noise. Every now and again I explode at him and it temporarily stops, he even dies the ‘self destruct’ thing too (always has). Sorry I don’t know what the answer is, but your not alone on this one!

I would look up strategies for ADHD even if he isn't impacted enough to get a diagnosis the strategies would still be effective. Could he get a fiddle toy for example so he can fiddle without annoying everyone else.

It makes a big difference if he is doing it to be deliberately irritating (in which case I would have though ignoring was the best strategy - put some music on your headphones and he can't play playstation or whatever till homework is done).

If he's doing it because he's stimming then it will be difficult for him to control so he won't be able to control the noises while also concentrating on homework. In which case I'd either allow him to just do it or divert him on to something else (fidget toy etc) so that his stimming is less invasive for those around him.

Sometimes it's like he can't control it but actually I think it's more defiance and arrogance than ever.

He has a real, 'what are you going to do about it' attitude and thinks it's funny.

It's more the arguing over every single little instruction or statement.

Things like, if I ask him to put his clothes away he'll shove them in the wardrobe and say 'you told me to put them away, you didn't say neatly'

He's just a cocky swine.

Yep, all sounds familiar op. I've discussed with ds before I'm calm moments how it makes me feel but when the red mist descends he doesn't care, he just presses those buttons! If your dh can't help (and I know what you mean, sometimes mine too escalates sanctions beyond what we've agreed) then I agree with pp try to remove yourself from the room if you can so he doesn't have an audience. Unfortunately I've found it really hard to 'reset ' him once he's in self destruct mode.

I'm so glad it's not just us.

It's so exhausting, especially as when he's on form, he's utterly lovely. He's just very easy to tip over the edge.

I have a very argumentative 15 year old DSS. What does he value? WiFi password is a good one. Make a visual checklist of his jobs. Do each job with him once and show him what will constitute "done". I'd start with a simple small list that's fast to do. You want him to win and get out of the habit of arguing. Then enforce it. Every single day. An easy predictable routine. When his list is done his time is his own and he get the password/his phone whatever. If it's not done right simply say not until it's done properly. If he argues walk away and tell him you're not interested in a silly argument and he can come find you when he's done it.

That's good advice.

I'm trying but it's hard to stick to. He's relentless.

For example 'tidy room' doesn't work as he says he likes it messy so I say I want his bed made, curtains open and lights off every day. With dirty clothes in the washing basket.

That seems a clear instruction which should be easy to follow, but he'll often go out of his way to make sure it's not quite done to see what happens.

Is he doing this at school as well?

When my dcs' room gets untidy, I calmly comment about how much spiders love messy rooms, and that seems to do the trick for awhile. I can appreciate that's really not something that would work with many children though.

Yes he is like this at school too. I've had a couple of conversations with his teachers.

Nothing rude or aggressive, but constant distraction and talking etc.

Have a conversation with the year manager about what sanctions are being used, and how effective they are. You can work in partnership with the school to handle this.

There's this magical thing called electricity and, if you cut it off, they soon start to behave, or go to sleep. Children and teens can't function without it these days and it can be a powerful weapon in your armoury.

Food is another one. No sweet stuff, only provide water, milk or tea, that soon calms them down.

No internet until the room is cleaned either. That even works on my 19 year old.

I've learned how to chance the WiFi password.