to ask if you know what the Irish backstop is and do you care

[HurricaneFloss]

If you know what it is, please explain it very simply to me.

If you care - why?

If you don't - why?

@Ifailed yes but all of those 1/2 million people will not be affected just because some people you know will be. It depends on the people. I grew up knowing nobody that has anything to do with or anyone to do with NI.

Bimgy Really, where do you live in a shed on craggy island. Have you any idea how many businesses depend on the UK market, never mind anyone near the border.

Even the global companies are making plans. Have you not read the news the fear of another financial crisis off the back of Brexit in Ireland. Your ignorance is blissful.

@LaurieMarlow - U.K. is Ireland's biggest export market.

I'm fairly sure that is not the case anymore. However, most exports to mainland Europe use the land bridge through Britain. Border delays there would have a huge impart, particularly on food exports.

It's not as simple as saying go straight to France instead as the infrastructure isn't there.

I vote the sea border. Husband works in the docks so this could be very beneficial to us and our entire area 😍

To add some facts to the nonsense being posted by some on here, in 2016 there were 2.6 million lorries and 11.4 million cars that entered Ireland from NI, presumably a similar number returned.
28 million journeys, or over 1/2 million a week, is not just few thousand people.

Add on those travelling by bus, plane or train and the idea that no-one in Ireland gives a shit about access to NI is not just nonsense, it's a lie.

So why would someone pop up on here telling deliberate untruths, are they just as dim as a Toc-h lamp, or are they on a paid mission?

@Ifailed and who's to say these people are irish citizens?

I simply said, in my entire life, I have known absolutely nobody - maybe one or two to have needed access to NI, or wanted to travel there, or known somebody living there.

Bigmy - the majority are from NI, but likely to be Irish passport holders. Equally as Irish as yourself. It is common to live on one side of the border and work on another.

@HurricaneFloss I appreciate your honesty and good will. I agree that it can be quite complex to get one's head around. This is why I have at times volunteered to create explainers and the like surrounding the function/role of the EU executive and its various institutions.

I also don't agree with the idea that Leavers are thick. What I find dispiriting are those that can't, or rather won't, look further than the end of their noses. This thread is full of such delights. The issue is that it matters not which side of the border you are on wrt NI/Ireland or UK - all of us will to varying extents be impacted and in a hugely negative way.

During the referendum I think I was posting on MN like a woman possessed. I've given up trying to explain because by and large as you can see in this thread some people just don't want to see the reality of it.

Brexit will be an absolute shit show. That is a fact that has been expressed by experts in industries such as aviation, farming, medicines to name but a few. But according to Gove, Boris et al 'We don't need experts.' Certainly not even the government's own impact assessments which also outline the impending catastrophe facing many sectors as a result of Brexit.

If in March 2019 the NHS gets a £350million cash injection, I will be the first to burn my European flag.

I have known absolutely nobody - maybe one or two
QED. You are a GF.

The backstop is not a sea border and it is total hyperbole to describe it as such. There would not be passport checks and people would be free to move as now.

How then would this work with immigration? There would have to be passport checks somewhere if the UK is insisting on control of immigration and an end to free movement, otherwise anyone would come to Ireland, cross the border and leap on a ferry to Wales to live happily ever after. That’s not what the Brexiteers want, so how would they stop it happening?

Exactly Thunder, and also just to add further to your point to that poster; of course the backstop is not a sea border. The backstop was mooted as a means of AVOIDING a sea border.

Furthermore, there would be passport/immigration checks. People would not be free to move as they currently do. Because guess what; Free movement of people (i.e. labour) is one of the fundamental pillars of EU membership, or more precisely, the European Single Market. Once you have chosen to leave that membership you leave those key pillars behind too; which incidentally include the free movement of goods, capital and services.

Ever heard of the European Single Sky... I hope you don't like holidaying abroad. Good luck to any airliners trying to find routes which avoid flying over/within EU airspace to get to their destinations.

I hope you also like roaming fees too, the EU got rid of those but once we leave we lose that too. I also hope you enjoy the prosperity that deregulation will bring, I look forward to eating chlorine-washed chicken too!

Apparently the government have enough medicine supplies to keep us ticking over for 6 months post-brexit. Hope you don't get ill after September 2019.

Ever heard of JIT, in other words: Just in Time manufacturing? It streamlines the production process in order to reduce inventory costs. I sure hope all that food doesn't rot whilst sitting in a lorry for hours waiting for customs officials to check all produce and paperwork before giving it the go ahead.

Ever heard of the EU's Galileo satellite project? To which British tax payers have already contributed £1billion, and to which a great deal of British firms have been central to designing and developing... we're gonna lose our stake in that too.

Well done to the 52%!! Brexit is the 'Will of the people' and must be achieved at any cost. Even if that means reducing us to roasting rats on open fires and rendering the pound worthless.

@LoveInTokyo Where art thou?

There are no need for passport checks. The Republic is not in Schengen so at the moment has the same rules as the UK. Post-Brexit, it is highly unlikely that EU citizens would require a visa to visit the UK, so no restrictions there. Freedom of movement means the right to work, but that would be checked by employers, not at the border.

In any case, I always take my passport for the flight anyway, and I think Ryanair does check, even if not technically necessary.

@changehere - Post-Brexit, it is highly unlikely that EU citizens would require a visa to visit the UK, so no restrictions there.

Provided a deal is done. If there is no deal, what then? How will they work?

If there’s no deal, then all is up for grabs. But the UK could not handle a no-deal Brexit for long. Food exports, flights, pharmaceuticals all require some form of international agreement. No deal on 29th March does not mean no deal is ever reached.

@changehere - No deal on 29th March does not mean no deal is ever reached

Of course not. There will eventually be a deal. But do you really want to be in a situation where you're frantically scrabbling for deals as you're running short on meds, food prices have gone through the roof etc?

Unfortunately, the brinkmanship being displayed by the British politicians may result in you being in that position.

It is important to me. I don't want the troubles returning to NI or risking the UK splitting up, so I think a second referendum should be held if no solution is found and we are likely to come away with no deal.

Of course I don’t want no deal and I don’t think anyone seriously wants that. I’d strongly prefer Remain but could live with an EEA solution.

No deal on 29th March does not mean no deal is ever reached.

Granted 'a' deal will eventually be reached. That much is true.

But the issue is what sort of deal. The UK is on the back-foot. To argue otherwise is nonsensical. The EU doesn't necessarily only have its sights set on Europe-wide expansion. Its main international export is actually it's regulatory regime. There are are, if you like, two main global super powers and a third increasingly on the rise; the EU, the US and China, respectively. In order to deal within the Single Market others must comply with EU regulation. Ergo, whilst the UK sets sail in the world to forge all these wonderful trade deals, which incidentally it won't be able to implement until it has reached a final agreement with the EU, it will still to a very large extent have to comply with EU standards.

The real kicker is that the UK will have absolutely zero input or influence over those regulations. The sadder part is that the UK actually played an instrumental role in developing those regulations.

Even if you ignore all the politics, rules and regulations aspects and look at it purely in real-world terms: the UK is a tiny nation compared to a 'group' of 27 other nations all marching to a similar beat. 27 other nations which happen to be our neighbours toboot. It therefore follows that a small nation does not have the wherewithal or even hold the cards to boss the larger group about.

People seem to think that forging 'World trade deals' will be our saving grace. It really won't. World trade deals are not a 'thing' as such; operating on WTO standards is effectively what happens in the absence of an actual trade deal. Bi-lateral agreements take years to hash out and negotiate. That's why the EU has presented the UK with essentially a menu of its current 'ready-made' trade/relationship options that it has with nations outside the EU. The problem for Theresa May, and the UK at large, is that a lot of these 'off-the-shelf' models either contravene the UK's redlines (see NI) or indeed the EU's redlines (see EU's firmly welded key pillars).

For 40-odd years the EU has put up with UK exceptionalism because despite our arrogance we actually did bring something to the table. Perhaps some lessons are best learned the hard way.

@changehere - Of course I don’t want no deal and I don’t think anyone seriously wants that.

Unfortunately your politicians don't seem to know what they want or what their obligations are vis-a-vis the good Friday agreement. If they don't get their act together soon, you will be facing a no deal brexit.

Jeepers this thread, how fucking depressing. I’m from Northern Ireland, (checks passport), yep, I’m Irish and I have the documents to prove it. I certainly feel entitled to it, we had to fight for that right (unlike some of our West Brit pals upthread). It’s the least the Irish government could do after hanging Northern nationalists out to dry.

It’s so very heartening to see how much our rancid little civil war affected you all. It certainly affected us, while youse all looked the other way.

We were quite enjoying the little glimpse of something approaching peace these last few years.

Now, after reading this, and watching just how sanguine so many are about chucking us all under the bus? Seriously, fuck the lot of youse.

If only there was a way for London, Scotland, and NI to remove themselves from this sorry mess

Hang on a minute, Choccywoccy! I and millions of others who don't live in those places voted remain - why should we be stuck with this "sorry mess". Especially as over 1 million Scots voted Leave.

I hope that Ireland reunifies, Scotland gains independence and Wales is inspired to leave the Uk too. They could all remain in the EU and form a Celtic alliance. Inward looking, protectionist Little Brexit England can be left to eat potatoes oh the irony ! and ruminate on just what that Tory tosser Cameron set in motion !

Wales voted to leave the EU.