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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask your thoughts on this situation - poss triggering?

22 replies

TheGreenWoman · 27/09/2018 13:01

I'd appreciate getting some thoughts on this situation - this has happened in real life, not just hypothetical. Possibly some details given may be irrelevant, but trying not to drip feed.

Two people, lets call them Jane & James, had a relationship in their late teens at college. It ended after a couple of years when Jane was in trouble with a family situation and ended up homeless, and James chose to walk away, citing that he was finding her situation too stressful. Up to this point, James was the really serious one, Jane wasn't so sure. Other than this, their relationship had been ok - not exactly a burning romance, but no red flags on either side. James was renowned in their friendship circle for being a nice person.

A couple of years down the line, in their early twenties they get back in touch, and rekindle a friendship, and become very close - just as friends. James wants more, Jane doesn't. During this time, Jane finds out that James cheated on her in their teens with her best friend. James has had a couple of casual relationships, Jane had a couple of more serious relationships. Jane tries to keep it just as friends, but there are a few uncomfortable times when James tries to push the boundary.

A few years further down the line again, Jane is in a tight spot, needs to get a flat to rent but can't find anything affordable on her own. James is living with his parents, but wants to get out, as he finds his father overbearing. Jane & James decide to rent a place together. Jane tells James clearly that this is purely as friends, and that there will be nothing between them, as James still wants more from their relationship. James reluctantly agrees. James mother talks to Jane and tells her not to hurt her son or mess him around. Jane tells her that this is purely as friends.

They move in, everything seems fine, everyone is happy - Jane & James are just friends. Then one night, when Jane is almost asleep, James comes into Janes room and gets into her bed, and starts to touch her. Jane is half asleep, but vaguely thinks this is really awkward, and doesn't know what to do. Normally she's a really strong person, but she finds it hard to say anything, so pretends to be asleep, hoping James will give up & go away. James doesn't go away, things progress - full sex results. Jane says nothing, and just lays there, hating every moment. She gives no consent or suggestion of consent verbally or physically, she is completely non-reactive. Next day, nothing is said by either of them, they still act as if they're friends, with nothing else happening. Except that from then on, James regularly comes into Janes room at night, and the same thing happens.

Some weeks later, Jane meets a new man, they just click and it's serious. Jane tells James this, James has a strop, and moves out within a week, leaving Jane unable to pay the rent, and tied to a contract, and with nowhere to go. Janes new boyfriend moves in - they hadn't planned to go so fast, but she's in a tight spot. This new relationship becomes a good and serious long term relationship.

Jane somehow can't stop thinking about what happened back then with James, and blames herself for not saying no to James, but somehow she just felt paralysed by it all at the time. It's still really, really uncomfortable to think about, even some years on.

What are your thoughts about this situation?

OP posts:
AuntBeastie · 27/09/2018 13:15

James didn’t ask for consent, and had no possible reason to think it had been given. That is rape.

Lots of rape victims freeze - it’s a normal reaction. James knew Jane didn’t want a sexual relationship, she had been very clear about it. He should only ever have had sex with her after receiving very explicit verbal consent. He didn’t, and so it was rape.

Are you Jane? If so, are you ok? Flowers

SuperSange · 27/09/2018 13:21

I'm so sorry, but that's either rape or sexual assault. What is it with ducking men? If yes means yes and no means yes, wtf are we supposed to do? Thanks

SuperSange · 27/09/2018 13:22

Oh, I missed the full sex bit. Jane has been raped. Xx

Caroelle · 27/09/2018 13:46

As others have said, this is rape. James didn’t ask for consent and actually had sex with someone who appeared to be asleep. Freezing is normal, and if you are Jane there is nothing that you have said here that makes James’s behaviour acceptable, he has committed a crime. Jane has choices now about what she can do next, that may include telling no-one else because that is what is best for her.

JacquesHammer · 27/09/2018 13:53

Jane was raped. The past relationship doesn't come into it - James had sex with someone who was asleep and therefore wasn't in a position to consent.

Are you ok OP? Flowers

MRSMARMITE3 · 27/09/2018 13:55

That James a rapist!

IsTheRainEverComingBack · 27/09/2018 13:56

Jane has been raped, and there’s no way James didn’t know it wasn’t consensual. He might argue that as Jane didn’t scream or hit it wasn’t, but we all know it’s just not that simple. I’m not surprised Jane feels uncomfortable, this is a very difficult thing to deal with.

MRSMARMITE3 · 27/09/2018 13:56

Jane is not to blame at all!

PhilomenaButterfly · 27/09/2018 13:57

That's rape.

pangolina · 27/09/2018 13:58

James is an arsehole and a rapist.
I'm glad Jane got away from him.

AimingToMisbehave · 27/09/2018 14:00

Another one chiming in to say Jane was raped. It's a normal reaction to freeze like that. Flowers

whitershadeofpale · 27/09/2018 14:00

A). Jane was raped.

B). Jane made a stupid decision to move in with James as they weren't on the same page about their relationship.

B does not mean that A was Jane' fault or she should have predicted it.

NewLevelsOfTiredness · 27/09/2018 14:12

'My thoughts' are irrelevant. James raped Jane - that's fact regardless of what my thoughts may be.

The 'freezing' thing is why clear consent is required instead of just absence of refusal. It's an involuntary reaction and by this point the victim has been put in a situation where they can't refuse verbally.

TheGreenWoman · 27/09/2018 14:43

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, I am Jane. Well not actually - obviously not my real name! It was easier for me to write it in the third party. Saying 'I' feels very hard.

It's something I'm still struggling to get my head around. It's never felt right, and always been something I've felt very uncomfortable and ashamed about. I've never told anyone until today.

On a logical level, I know James was in the wrong. But I feel as if I am to blame somehow. That if I'd just said no, or told him to go away, that it wouldn't have happened. I don't understand why I didn't - especially beyond the first time. I get the freezing thing - though, until I'd read past comments and then gone and read up on it, I didn't know it was a thing. Like others say, I'd always thought that if I were assaulted, that I'd fight back. Turns out I wouldn't.

I'm still struggling with the word 'rape'. I'm not disbelieving what others have said. But struggling to connect that with myself.

OP posts:
PingusPaws · 27/09/2018 15:08

@TheGreenWoman

So sorry to hear about your situation, please don't ever blame yourself for the horrific actions of this person. You made your boundaries very, very clear and he crossed them.
Women feeling paralysed and helpless during rape is very common, and they may feel almost a "guilt" about not doing something to stop the perpetrators. It's another horrible thing that they must try to deal with, on top of the awful violation they have suffered.

Do you have someone close to you, who you can confide in, to help you deal with this. But you made a huge and brave first step by telling us here.
Take careThanks

JacquesHammer · 27/09/2018 15:27

But I feel as if I am to blame somehow

Please, please try not to. There is only one person to blame and that’s James. Are you speaking to anyone about it?

TheGreenWoman · 28/09/2018 12:34

I don't really have anyone close to talk to, other than my OH, but I don't think I want to bring it up with him. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he'd be supportive - at least I hope so? But I don't want to add to his problems, and I don't want to change how he views me.

I do see a counsellor for other reasons, and it came up really briefly in the last session - we didn't have time to go through it in depth, or for her to say much about it, as we were almost out of time - and we have so much to tackle! I'm guessing this is something we'll revisit in future sessions. My counsellor is fab, so I know we'll be able to tackle it.

OP posts:
MrsOprah · 28/09/2018 15:23

I'm sorry this happened to you. I believe you.
You were in an impossible position. He knew you were vulnerable and needed him to pay the shared rent. He took advantage. He had no concent and his actions were rape.

Conpletely understand not fighting back. Most rapes happen by people known to the victim.

I understand the talking about it in third person, it took me over a decade to say 'I/me'.

I hope you're well and have space and support x

cranberryx · 28/09/2018 20:31

James sounds like a very horrid person to be honest. Selfish. Manipulative and also a rapist.

It's up to you what you want to do. Do you want to report him and make him pay for him crime? Or do you want to try and erase this and move on with your new relationship and partner. The choice is yours and no one can make if for you.

It wasn't your fault. None of it. Do not blame yourself. Flowers

Bracknellite · 29/09/2018 19:38

OP. You are/ were not to blame and James is a manipulative little cunt.
As pp has said, continue to seek help in moving on or report if you feel you should.

MiniCooperLover · 29/09/2018 20:19

OP, this was definitely rape. Did James behave normally/ever acknowledge anything to you after this? Do you still have any contact with him now? 😳

TheGreenWoman · 30/09/2018 21:08

I'm completely taken aback by how in agreement everyone is. I really wasn't expecting people to all feel this was rape, and be so supportive. Thank you all so much.

I just don't feel that reporting is an option at the moment. I don't know where he is now. It's been some years, there is no proof, and it would come down to he/she said. And I worry that it would impact on my family.

I will continue to see my counsellor and work through it.

And no, he never said anything after any of the occasions. After he left, he cut all contact with me, and I've never spoken to him since. I don't know where he is/what he's doing now.

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