To think the pavement is for pedestrians

[Whiskeyjar]

Why do people park their cars over the pavement? I genuinely want to understand this better as I think there surely must be an reason for this that I am missing. Example - I live next to a busy main road which is very long and I need to walk up this to access DS1's school and DS2's nursery. Since having DS2 I have walked everywhere with the pram and have came up against this problem almost every week- majority of the time it's different cars but some are repeat offenders. They don't just park slightly over the pavement but over enough that you can't pass with a pram which then forces you to have to cross the road which is really busy and no proper crossings on it. I get so annoyed that I'm being forced on to the road and putting my kids in danger because people do this- but why? What's the purpose of it? It's a wide road so if you parked entirely on the road cars would still pass with ease and even if they didn't, you could still do single file to get round a car that's parked? I have knocked on doors and asked people to move their cars on several occasions and never had any push back luckily. Is it just thoughtlessness?

Maybe if your desire to

live in a nice Victorian house in a popular bit of town where parking is challenging because it’s better
AND
Send your children to a different catchment school because it better
AND
Work somewhere different again because it’s a better job
And
Have a car to go between these places because it’s more convenient

Means that you can’t park your car without selfishly blocking access to basic freedom and mobility for those that have less choices that you.

Then you should have a think about your level of entitlement.

Maybe you‘ll Have to go without something

I think that's a bit of a simplistic idea Digggers - do you suppose it is as easy as change job? Or change circumstances?

Plus you're assuming everyone lives in an area with reasonable public transport.

I'm absolutely not advocating parking on the pavement - nobody should be doing that. However you're confusing the issue.

But it is that simple.

If your choice of job or choice of place to live ( or another circumstance) means that you need a car , then make sure you can park it without blocking a disabled persons access.

Or else your life choices are taking away someone else’s.

*But it is that simple.

If your choice of job or choice of place to live ( or another circumstance) means that you need a car , then make sure you can park it without blocking a disabled persons access*

It isn't that simple. Circumstances change. For example I drove DD to school every day of primary? Why? Because despite being less than 0.6miles from a local school we didn't get in - we also didn't get into any of the subsequent 4 closest schools we put down.

A number of people around here worked for one major employer - they've since closed operations and moved miles away.

Various situations that show why people might suddenly need a vehicle. As I said earlier, absolutely no excuse to park blocking a pavement BUT there are countless reasons why people do absolutely need cars. The entitlement isn't having the vehicle, it is using and keeping the vehicle in an appropriate place - which isn't the pavement!

I hate it too. My pram handles quite often accidentally bump wing mirrors.

It's a legal loophole, you're not allowed to drive across a pavement but parking on it is not specifically banned, outside of London.

There's a proposal to ban it everywhere, tell your MP you want a ban!

It would be a bit complicated as some streets would have to reduce on-street parking drastically or scrap some pavement, they wouldn't be passable if the cars didn't park on pavements.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44466813

Anyone who says they can’t manage without a car is wrong.

Presumably said by someone in a city like London with massive spending on public transport, infrastructure, etc.

Out in the real world, there are small towns and big villages with no buses in the evening and very limited buses at the weekend. Places where there are barely any dedicated cycle lanes. Places where there aren't integrated public transport systems. Places where there is a very long walk between bus station and railway station. Places with very steep hills making it impossible for cycling and difficult for young/old/infirm.

but jacques, what about the people who are saying they have literally no option but to park on the pavement, as they live in an old victorian street with no carparks nearby?What if they had literally no alternative to having a car because their child didn't get into catchment school and their employer moved their job further away. Do you think that their right not to have to change the place they live, or the job they have, or the the method of transport they use is greater than the rights they are taking away from others?

Pacer, my husband actually lives 12 miles from his work and there is no direct public transport. He either cycles there (an hour there and back, great for his health) or when he can't cycle he walks up a hill to the station, gets the train and then a bus.

down the road they have started doing this. they near enough block whole pavement. its a busy path way. used by parents taking kids to school, people getting off the bus and we have quite a few wheelchair users round here. but hey as long as they don't have to walk and can park their car where they like.... selfish fuckers.

Do you think that their right not to have to change the place they live, or the job they have

That’s my point about it not always being that easy. For many people it simply isn’t possible to change house or job.

He either cycles there (an hour there and back, great for his health) or when he can't cycle he walks up a hill to the station, gets the train and then a bus

That’s great that people who can do that. Not everyone is in that position.

So if it isn't possible to make life changes that necessitate you needing a car and it isn't possible to park your car without taking away other peoples ability to even leave their house, then disabled people will just need to stay in their houses won't they. They don't need to get to work, school, go shopping or go anyway of course.

It may not be "simple " or "easy" to change your life circumstance in order to have space for your car if you need it or to not have one if you can't park it appropriately... but it is possible.

if you block a pavement you are making it not easy or simple for others and in many cases your are making it impossible for disabled people to use the pavement, and are therefore confining them to their homes.

I refuse to believe that anyone has no choice but to park in a way that obstructs the pavement.

If people got clamped for this kind of behaviour, they'd quickly find other parking options materialise.

You haven't seen thousands of streets of terraced houses then. There is NO alternative in many places.

“How do you think people managed 50 years ago?”

That is such a ridiculous statement
50 years ago most people lived within walking distance or a public transport commute of where they worked. Where I live there are loads of trading estates in the middle of a semi-rural area, with very poor public transport links. A lot of these places also have shift workers, so where there is public transport it doesn’t run at the times that an employee might require. The only viable way of getting to work is by car. People who don’t drive don’t apply for jobs in these places. Oh, and jobs aren’t too plentiful round here, so people get the work where they can find it. You must live in some kind of Utopia where there are loads of jobs with abundant public transport.

Those people blithely saying that public transport is always the answer must live in London or places where it is plentiful. It isn’t plentiful where I live. Added to that we have Northern Rail on strike every Saturday for the foreseeable future

“I'm absolutely not advocating parking on the pavement - nobody should be doing that. However you're confusing the issue.”

I agree JacquesHammer

“You haven't seen thousands of streets of terraced houses then. There is NO alternative in many places”

That is the case in the Northern town near me. But Diggers doesn’t think that these places exist.

Yet again, this an issue that spotlight why public investment in making public transport efficient, cheap at the point-of-use and practical would benefit the country.

It's entirely true that due to way our society has developed over the last 50 years, many people need their cars. They need to get to work on time without spending two hours on the bus first (due to lack of direct links), they need to drop the kids off at school, they need to go to the shops, they need to be able to get back from their weekly LARP group night and the buses stop running at 8pm, and so on. And then they need to park it somewhere, in between uses. You can maybe deal with this at an individual level by applying the stick to people caught parking in a way that endangers or inconveniences others, but honestly, it's not working well so far, is it?

Proper public investment in public transport infrastructure would pay dividends, but it would require money and actual thought, as in more than just concreting over carparks and hoping for the best. We'd also see improvement in public health (fewer people run over while trying to negotiate badly parked cars, people walking more in order to traverse between house and bus-stop, reduced pollution).

Excellent post Jamie

That is the case in the Northern town near me

Absolutely. Even in the small market town that’s closest to me which is nowhere near a large town or city has a prevalence of back-to-back houses. There simply isn’t space for a vehicle.

if you block a pavement you are making it not easy or simple for others and in many cases your are making it impossible for disabled people to use the pavement, and are therefore confining them to their homes

So the option might be partial pavement parking providing space for a wheelchair user to pass? I can’t see anything fundamentally wrong with that.

So the option might be partial pavement parking providing space for a wheelchair user to pass? I can’t see anything fundamentally wrong with that.

Which is what any motorist with a brain would do. It's only the seriously stupid/couldn't give a toss type of motorist who would park to actually completely block a pavement. That hold true however narrow the road and however few spaces there are. It's NEVER acceptable to fully block the pavement regardless of lack of public transport, lack of car parks, etc. Motorists should just park further away if the only other option is completely blocking the pavement.

How do you think people managed 50 years ago?

Award for the most ridiculous and out of touch comment! Must have been made by someone living in a city with excellent public transport!
50 years ago there were only a fraction of the road traffic, so the few who had cars could park virtually anywhere they wanted. But people simply didn't need them then. There were parades of shops in every estate, corner shops on virtually every street corner. It wasn't a matter of walking to shops, you could usually see a shop at the end of your own street. Then workplaces/big shops were concentrated in town centres, so the central bus stops/terminuses were usually where people wanted to go to. Nowadays, most workplaces, supermarkets, etc are out of town, so pretty useless and inconvenient to get a bus to a bus station/terminus that could be miles away. About a decade ago, our village (not small, it's got 5,000 residents) lost its only bus service that went through the heart of the village. Now anyone wanting a bus has to walk to the outskirts onto a busy by-pass, even school children, and even then it's an hourly bus service - as I say, thats for a village of 5,000, not some sleepy hamlet on a hillside!

My OH keys them. Naughty I know but when there is no logical reason for it that’s what he does. Maybe they will be more careful next time.

How do you think people managed 50 years ago?

"Award for the most ridiculous and out of touch comment!"

Exactly!

"So the option might be partial pavement parking providing space for a wheelchair user to pass? I can’t see anything fundamentally wrong with that."

I agree. I never said that blocking an entire pavement was OK. I was simply stating the plain and simple fact that in some towns parking entirely on the road is not possible.

My OH keys them. Naughty I know

Not 'naughty' It's a criminal act.

Ah well, if it makes them not do it again then I couldn’t care less.

Agreed, the sensible thing would be to have parking lines on pavements that show where you can park which leave enough space.

And areas that don't need this, can have a full and complete ban.