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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that Pret are responsible for this young woman's death

374 replies

brizzledrizzle · 23/09/2018 15:35

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45617845

A 15 year old with a sesame allergy died after eating a sandwich from Pret a manger; the company confirmed that 'its products were not individually labelled with allergen or ingredient information.' (missing apostrophe not mine)

I think it's appalling that they don't label products and pretty stupid to bake baguettes with sesame seeds inside if you aren't going to make it very obvious on the packaging that they contain sesame seeds. The government website says that they must be on the packaging because of allergies.

OP posts:
Unihorn · 25/09/2018 15:53

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine Not quite the same, but I manage a chain restaurant. We get alleged food poisoning reports every couple of months from people who claim to have food poisoning or have had an allergic reaction. Without proof like stool samples it can be very difficult to definitively say the cause of someone's illness. In some instances, people may have delayed reactions to allergens/food poisoning from 2 or 3 days prior.

In my company repeated complaints around a certain product would definitely lead to us changing a recipe or withdrawing something completely.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 25/09/2018 15:55

That's a fair point, but I think BBC were reporting what had been said at the inquest. This made me think that the admission had come from Pret.

I'm sure it can and does happen elsewhere, but you would hope a responsible company would change their practice or labelling?

Notacluewhatthisis · 25/09/2018 16:21

You are missing the point though. The fact that have been complaints mean nothing. In these cases nothing would have been proved. As in, it could have happened begore or after eating at pret. That wouldn't change labelling practices.

In all these cases it could be a case of cross contamination, which pret will struggle to control unless they bake their bread and make sandwiches in a controlled environment. But again, that s not going to enable all allergy suffers to eat the sandwiches. Each allergy would need it's own. And what if it's the flour that became contaminated further along the chain where no body could have known.

Allergy suffers should be very aware of contamination problems and how easy it is for food to become contaminated with allergens.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 25/09/2018 16:44

So the response will be that Pret puts a sign up saying "we can't guarantee that any of our products are free from nuts, seeds or any other product that can cause allergies". And then no one with an allergy will be able to shop there.

How about anyone with allergies just asks the manager about them when buying something. Wouldn't that be fairer?

Notacluewhatthisis · 25/09/2018 17:08

The manager will only be able to say they can't promise no cross contamination.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/09/2018 17:09

How about anyone with allergies just asks the manager about them when buying something. Wouldn't that be fairer?

They still wouldn't be able to buy anything. Everything is made (afaik) in the same kitchen so cross contamination fairly likely.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 25/09/2018 17:23

The manager will only be able to say they can't promise no cross contamination
Then additional labelling is also pointless, there is very little else can reasonably be done.

inlectorecumbit · 25/09/2018 17:27

Tragic yes
but with allergies you take no chances.
Never presume something is safe. If in doubt ask!

DorasBob · 25/09/2018 17:28

My understanding of he situation thought as that sesame was knowingly added to the bread.

Whilst no one in the world can 100% guarantee something hasn’t come into contact with an allergen, people with allergies need to know what the actual intended ingredients of food are.

If that poor girl had known that sesame was actively baked into the bread, she wouldn’t have bought t, and wouldn’t have died. A label could have prevented that. We aren’t talking about a stray sesame seed causing a death here are we?

All food should be labelled appropriatley, to help allergy sufferers make informed choices. That doesn’t mean putting ‘may contain nuts’ on a bag of apples, but giving a list of the ingredients of an item

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/09/2018 18:03

That doesn’t mean putting ‘may contain nuts’ on a bag of apples

Actually it does when those apples have been packed in an environment that also handles nuts..

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/09/2018 18:04

People with allergies need to know if their allergen is an ingredient, but they also need to know if there is a possibility of cross contamination.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 25/09/2018 18:47

How is it even possible to put labels on all fresh food? Will restaurants, cafes, market stalls, delis, fast food joints, etc all have to package fresh food and label it on an individual basis?

Maybe we just have to ban all fresh ingredients that anyone is allergic to.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 25/09/2018 18:52

It's = it is

grumiosmum · 25/09/2018 19:01

In Austria & Germany all restaurants by law have to show all allergens for each dish on the menu.

It's actually often quite confusing, because DS is coeliac & so many things are served with bread, so they show up as containing gluten when it could just be the bread.

HardofCleaning · 25/09/2018 19:04

How is it even possible to put labels on all fresh food? Will restaurants, cafes, market stalls, delis, fast food joints, etc all have to package fresh food and label it on an individual basis?

Food in Pret already has labels with ingredients listed - they should just have to list every ingredient for the benefit of allergy sufferers. People with allergies who buy fresh food would obviously be able to ask the person selling it. The person selling it should then be able to answer. It's hardly that difficult is it?

dimsum123 · 25/09/2018 19:06

I could be wrong but I think it was her dad who bought the sandwich. If she had been my child with such a severe allergy I would have double checked with staff before buying it or brought something from home.

DanglyBangly · 25/09/2018 19:19

People with allergies who buy fresh food would obviously be able to ask the person selling it. The person selling it should then be able to answer.

But they can do that in Pret? The stickers say ask the staff, apparently.

Mumteedum · 25/09/2018 19:35

Unfortunately when I have asked staff in Pret they have been utterly disinterested and refer me to the shelf!

PowerPantsRule · 26/09/2018 07:46

What to do about Wailmer thank you, yes it was awful service BUT there was no manager on that day (I asked) so she was winging it. Thanks for telling me about McDonalds, they have always been brilliant for me and have always handed me the allergy book (I bet someone high up in McD's has allergy issues!).

GiantKitten · 26/09/2018 08:23

This is from the Times. It’s not looking good for Pret, is it?

Pret A Manger did not respond to nine warnings that its baguettes could cause a deadly allergic reaction before the death of a teenager who ate one, an inquest was told yesterday.

Natasha Ednan-Laperouse, 15, died on a British Airways flight to Nice after eating an olive and tapenade baguette from a branch of Pret A Manger in Heathrow Terminal 5.

The teenager, who had severe food allergies, was unaware that sesame seeds had been baked into the bread. Her father, Nadim, 53, who was with Natasha, said that the ingredient was not listed on the packaging.

It emerged yesterday that there had been nine cases of sesame-related allergy incidents in the year before Natasha died, including six that involved “artisan baguettes”, according to a complaint log for the company.

Four people required hospital treatment and another went to a medical centre. In one case a girl aged 17 nearly died after an anaphylactic reaction to sesame seeds in a Pret sandwich nine months before Natasha’s death. The girl’s father, a doctor, was present and helped to prevent the episode from being fatal. The teenager’s family contacted Pret A Manger and expressed alarm that “similar adverse events could easily occur”.

Jeremy Hyam, QC, representing Natasha’s family, told West London coroners’ court that the company had been given “a specific warning” but failed to properly label its sandwiches with allergy information. He said: “There was a clear concern being repeatedly raised that artisan baguettes were causing sesame seed allergy problems, which were not properly responded to by Pret.”

Pret A Manger has a policy of placing allergy signs within fridges, advising customers to ask staff for details. Abdoulaye-Djouma Diallo, general manager of the Heathrow branch, said he was “confident and sure” that he had put the stickers on the fridges.

Mr Hyam told the court, however, that a council health officer who visited the branch in May last year reported “there were no till stickers to be seen at the till area”. Mr Hyam also produced a photograph taken eight days after Natasha’s death which showed a Pret A Manger fridge with no allergy label.

Under EU regulations, when food is handmade and packaged on the premises, as is the case for Pret A Manger, outlets are not required to put allergen information on each individual food item. The clause is designed to free small, independent businesses from onerous regulations.

On Monday Mr Ednan-Laperouse told the court that there was no label on the fridge the day his daughter died. He said that he had the “vigilance levels of a hawk” and would have noticed any label.

Natasha, from Fulham, southwest London, suffered an allergic reaction after take-off on July 17, 2016. Her father told the court that Natasha cried: “Daddy, help me, I can’t breathe,” before losing consciousness and suffering a cardiac arrest. After landing, Natasha was taken to a hospital, where she was pronounced dead.

Mr Ednan-Laperouse said that after his daughter’s death he had asked his mother to visit a London branch of Pret A Manger to examine the sandwich.

Finding nothing on the label, she asked at the counter and was given a folder. “My mother looked down the list and found that the baguette dough had sesame seed inside it. I was stunned that a big food company like Pret could mislabel a sandwich and this could cause my daughter to die. It was their fault.”

Jonathan Perkins, the chain’s director of risk and compliance, said that Pret A Manger “responded appropriately to each individual complaint at the time.” He added that the company had carried out an investigation, which found “appropriate signage and labelling [was] in place” but that it nevertheless chose to “enhance the signage”.

Pret A Manger said it was “deeply saddened” by Natasha’s death. Clive Schlee, 59, its chief executive, attended the first two days of the inquest but has yet to comment.

The inquest continues.

longwayoff · 26/09/2018 08:49

If you have an allergy you must take care or you may die. If there is any room for doubt as to safety then choose something you know to be safe, preferably something that is an actual identifiable food rather than an amalgamation of ingredients. A pp mentioned she doesn't have an anaphylactic allergy. This is a dangerous misconception. If you haven't yet had an anaphylactic reaction it doesn't mean you won't in the future. Please take care of yourselves

ErrolTheDragon · 26/09/2018 08:54

It was the front headline story in the Times this morning - sharetoken link

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pret-a-manger-told-nine-times-of-deadly-seed-risk-natasha-ednan-laperouse-inquest-hears-fmndpq05c?shareToken=fe5ad1c7c883b4165e03277836de48d5

I don't understand why the heck anyone would put sesame seeds in bread dough. On top, yes - there they add taste and texture and they're obvious. The 'artisan' bakers are at fault as well as Pret. Such an unnecessary waste of a young life.

PreventCrookedTeeth · 26/09/2018 09:34

@ErrolTheDragon It is quite normal to put sesame seeds into bread dough. What isn't normal is leaving them off the list of ingredients. There is no point in listing the ingredients at all if the allergens are missed off. It was a sealed package with ingredients on the side. The customer should be able to assume that the ingredients list will be informative.

MadMum101 · 26/09/2018 16:29

The BA staff on the plane should be ashamed of themselves.

Couldn't get the defibrillator out when someone was dying because they had to stand in front of the emergency doors. Captain couldn't divert. Really?

NicoAndTheNiners · 26/09/2018 19:20

I know it’s disgusting. Why couldn’t they ask for a volunteer from the passengers to do the defibrillator if they really had to stand by the doors? Even someone not trained operating it is better than nobody doing it....the machines talk to you and tell you what to do anyway. It really isn’t rocket science. Put pads on (it tells you where), it analyses, if it wants you to shock it tells you which button to press.

I guess they have to ensure that nobody tries to open a door mid descent?? But then nobody stands by the doors all flight....though maybe the air pressure means they can’t be opened higher up?

Or get two unrelated passengers to stand by the door? So they’re guarding the door and guarding each other in the unlikely event one of them decides to open the door? Surely the 9/11 events showed in the event of an emergency passengers will do what they can to help in an emergency and try and prevent a plane being crashed? I’d have taken my chances and trusted that the chances of one of the passengers trying to open a door we’re slim.

But then I suppose these days maybe the air crew would be sacked for not following procedure?

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