Universal credit

[Icecoldtea]

This is not a benefit bashing thread what so ever! Just a genuine enquiry. (Probably not the best section to post this in but I had no idea where else to post).

I use to work full time but had to leave my last job due to a bereavement in the family (My dad). I now work one day a week which I earn around £80 for the day. I’ve had to make a claim for housing benefit as I can’t afford to pay all my rent/other bills with the money I currently earn. I’m looking for full time work and actually have a job interview next week so fingers crossed I won’t even have to continue with the claim anyway if I get the job.

I went for my universal credit meeting yesterday and was told I would need to meet with a work coach regularly to look for work. When I said I was only claiming housing benefit and not JSA I was told I have to claim all of it (even if I’m not actually entitled to it all) as benefits are all bundled into one now. The last time I made a housing benefit claim (which was around 4 years ago) it was through the council so I’m not use to all of this universal credit stuff.

The last time I made a housing benefit claim they didn’t ask me to find a full time job (I was part time then) as technically I wasn’t claiming JSA and I did work, just part time. My best friend works part time (has two kids) and claims housing benefit but doesn’t have to meet with a work coach or find full time work, I can’t understand this? (I’m not bashing her by the way, I love her and when I told her she said she was confused also and didn’t understand why it was one rule for her and another for me).

I understand they want to cut down on costs and that’s why I need to find full time work, and believe you me I want to but I just can’t understand why the rules are different for certain people? I guess it comes down to the fact that I don’t have any kids and she does. Does anyone know why this might be?

Again, I’m not bashing her she’s like a sister to me and hopefully I won’t need to continue with the claim anyway as I’ll find full time work soon. By the sounds of it I won’t be entitled to anything anyway as I apparently earn too much (£320 per month which doesn’t even cover my rent). Life eh!

It might be because she's an existing claimant and you're making a new claim.

It’s to ensure everyone claims what they are entitled too and no one receives what they aren’t entitled too. If your having to claim housing benefit their whole aim is to get you off it so will push you towards a full time job.

And the difference is new claim vs existing claim plus having kids is a factor for triggering work coach

Thanks for all the replies, oh yes I understand that I definitely wouldn’t want to claim something I’m not entitled to and I hate to be claiming at all to be honest, it’s no fun. I did think having children might factor into it.

Thanks again.

Anyone on the old Housing Benefit stays on it unless they have a change of circumstances then they claim UC.
If you live in a UC area (I think they are still rolling it out) then you claim UC.
UC is Housing costs plus living expenses.
So you tell them your circumstances and they should pay you what you are entitled to.
Even though you are employed you still have to see the job people as they would expect you to look for more hours.
Good luck with your job hunting hope things get better for you

It is because your area has most likely become a full service Universal credit area recently and you are needing to make a new claim for one of the benefits that UC replaces . It is different for your friend because she has an existing HB claim most likely from when your area was not full service UC. the rules for Uc are a lot more punitive , and strict particularly in relation to job searching. So you could have one person who is on JSA on the old system just being asked to do a few hours job seeking a week and someone else on UC being made to do 35 hours job seeking. It seems very unfair but it is just a case of new benefit new rules I'm afraid. On UC you cannot claim just one element - you will get a personal element, rent element and child element if you have a child.

She probably has an existing claim so is still on the old scheme. If UC is in her area if she makes a new claim she will transfer.

Everyone on UC gets pushed to up their hours

You will get some help from UC because you will get the personal element and rent element, then that total amount will reduce by your wages but for every pound you earn your UC amount reduces by 63p in the pound so you will definitely get some help as you don't earn much.

I see, that makes a lot more sense now as she’s been claiming housing benefit for a few years as where I’ve only just put my claim in now. Yes they are definitely making it harder for people to claim benefits, I remember when I made a claim a few years ago for HB it was a lot more relaxed. Thanks again

If you work PT but earn the equivalent of FT minimum wage earnings you don’t have to look for work. It could also be because of the age of their children.

I forgot to add (sorry I didn’t mean to drip feed) I’m self employed. Although it’s only one day a week the day changes and I can say no to the work if I want to, however I wouldn’t as I’m desperate for the money.
I use to be self employed full time in the same industry but due to circumstances I had to go down to one day a week.

The lady said to me yesterday that I need to attend another meeting in two weeks time for them to determine if I’m classed as self employed or not even though HMRC have confirmed I am in fact self employed. I have an accountant and everything is legit.

I have all my accounts with me ready to take to the meeting but they have said that if they believe I’m not self employed they have every right to close down my claim and I won’t be entitled to anything. It seems as if they won’t even be basing my entitlement on my earnings but more so on my job status

I’m now looking for full time employment as I can’t find full time work on a self employed basis in the industry I’m already in. I hope that makes sense I dont want to confuse people!

UC really isn't great for the self employed I'm afraid.

Babyroobs yes I can definitely see that. I just don’t understand how they can determine if I’m self employed or not as surely if HMRC (who I actually pay tax to) confirms I am then how can the job centre overrule that?! It seems they just make rules up as they go along. I just hope I don’t have to do this for too long as it’s exhausting and I feel so sorry for people who have to do it long term. Thanks again for your helpful replies

It doesn't mean you won't be entitled to anything, it means not UC.
Not all areas have rolled out UC for the self employed yet. I worked in housing benefits until last year and UC was a shambles. They started it only paying the most simple claims and then gradually incorporating more circumstances into the system.
If they aren't paying Se claims for the moment then you will apply for Housing Benefit, Council Tax support and JSA to top up your weekly income.
Don't worry, I suspect if HMRC have ruled you as self employed the other side will do the same.
If I were you I would put in a Housing Benefit claim now so that the ball is already rolling. You can always withdraw it. The council will be able to see if UC is awarded anyway and then won't pay.

I claimed UC for 5 weeks and had to attend job centre every week and prove that I had been job searching. I was fortunate to gain FT work quickly. Under UC they can sanction your money if you don't meet their requirements. How will you pay all your bills if you only work one day a week ?

I think HMRC state if you earn < 1k a year you're not self employed? But I think that's in the context of say a hobby artist for example who has sold a few things and is wondering at what point to register. Not that they would stop you if you are already registered and have a bad year.

If you're still self employed from before when you were doing full time hours I suppose you could circumvent the job search meetings by saying you were self employed whilst not actually trading ... So my guess is they are checking into that. As you are still trading and earning £80 a week I don't think you'll have an issue with them saying you're not actually self employed.

I'd imagine the reason for so much red tape is the fact it would be so easy to not declare income. But dont get me wrong, I'm self employed too and get so annoyed with the lack of support for stuff like this / maternity / everything.

Good luck with it all and sorry to hear about your dad

The self employed thing with UC is a bit tricky. They set a Minimum Income Floor (MIF) which I think is the equivalent of 16 hours at minimum wage. If you don’t meet that then they’ll expect you to be looking for more work. I think it was put in to stop people claiming that they were working 16 hours per week in order to qualify for working tax credits when the actual money they brought in might only be a couple of quid an hour.

Good luck with your interview!

So I’m confused. If I work full time but claim a small bit of council tax support as I don’t earn quite enough to cover all my rent and council tax, so approx £50 a month on top of my salary, I would have to claim income support or jobseekers as well and talk to a work coach and go to the job centre to claim?

You absolutely must claim Universal Credit and so must anyone else in a similar position. The reason is simple but not well publicised: Claiming UC will give you National Insurance credits which contribute to your state pension. If you don't claim UC when you can, your state pension will not be as high as if you had done, and you will only find this out when you retire.

I'm not affected by this, I'm already retired and on disability benefits, I read this in an article in the Financial Times some weeks ago. It's behind a paywall. Apparently some people now eligible for UC and not claiming, could lose up to an estimated £4,000 a year from their state pension.

Ask the person at the job centre you're dealing with, or look for a specialist forum on the Web.

This is yet another aspect of this Mickey Mouse government's communication failures. I expect they don't realise it themselves even though it's part of their own legislation. Esther McVey as Work & Pensions Secretary... pffft! I didn't think anyone could be worse than IDS, but I was wrong.

UC is a bugger if you're self employed, or if your earnings fluctuate due to shift patterns, commission or something.

The amount you get is based on your income for the previous month, so if you get a lot of money one month, the following month your UC can reduce to zero. Of course, your earnings can fall dramatically that month too, so you're doubly skint.

One of my colleagues has a client who works term-time only and claims UC for help with her rent. Because she doesn't work in the school holidays, she has to meet the UC rules for job seeking while the school is shut, even though she's got a job! The school won't pay her year round (which would solve everything), because she's admin staff and they only do that for teaching staff.

As is always the way, the politicians who dream up these schemes have no idea of the reality of people's lives.

@GoatWithACoat
No, not if you work full time.
Basically you complete the application and they check how much you are entitled to. If you already work full time you would not need to search for jobs.
But Council Tax Support is staying with local authorities as far as I know.