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Original poster

Private/Grammar School

33 replies

1Brummiemummy · 22/09/2018 16:06

Hi all, just looking for feedback in regards children who have passed the 11+ for independent or grammar school. My daughter has grew up in state school and I've only just realised the competitiveness to get into these schools. In panic I've just started her with extra Maths & English tuition classes but do you think it will be too little to late as the exam sits in Nov? Her primary teachers have always said she's a very bright child and a role model pupil (currently a prefect). I now relise many children have been in prep school or tution early in advance & my daughter hasn't Sad Just looking to see if there are any parents with children on here that didn't have extra tuition and passed?

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Fireinthegrate · 22/09/2018 16:11

My daughter went to a girls' grammar having passed the 11+ with no tutoring. I bought past papers from WHSmith which she did on her own at home, and I marked them (using the sheet included).

The Headteacher at her grammar school was against pupils being tutored as it just means they can passa n exam and in her experience a lot of girls left in the first year because they could not cope with the work.

KeepingTheWormsQuiet · 22/09/2018 17:37

Fireinthegrate - Getting your child to do practice papers and you marking them (and presumably explaining where she went wrong) is tutoring.

A lot of the "no tutoring" people just mean no paid tutoring. They just want everyone to think their child is cleverer than the other kids who got in. I was once told the classic line, "oh, we didn't go down the tutoring route, but she did practice papers for 18 months". This girl didn't pass, by the way. Plenty of children have extra tuition, but don't pass the exams.

I personally wouldn't go into an exam with no preparation and I certainly wouldn't send my child into one either. Headteachers always say they don't like tutoring (whether by parents or paid tutors), but most people do it. Some headteachers are a bit more realistic about it and do suggest some preparation so children understand what exams are like and not to linger too long on difficult questions etc.

OP - you still have 1-2 months to prepare your child and you're already paying for a tutor. Get some 11+ practice books/papers from WH Smiths or Amazon and go through them with her. Have you actually looked at the schools, registered her for the tests or done research on what is in the exams? You seem to have been strangely taken by surprise by these exams.

TeddybearBaby · 22/09/2018 17:44

Tutored/ing both mine. Son goes to grammar and daughter will start in October/ November for next year. CGP / Bond and Letts do good exercise books. Some tutors do group sessions. I wonder if you could get her in on something like that? The 11+ is so hard now and there’s so many kids doing it. It’s really competitive. I think she’d benefit from some practice but don’t worry about it now...... some of the test isn’t taught in schools so it’d be a bit unfair to send her into a test completely unprepared.

A boy in my sons class only failed by two points and he’d only done a couple of exercise books at home so I don’t think it would have taken him much to pass.

GinPink · 22/09/2018 17:46

I work in a grammar. I'd set her some papers (WH Smith and/or from a tutor) so she gets used to their format and the time allowances. That's the main thing She's obv not going to be tutored as Much as some of the others but I don't think it's too late and could well still get in.

aintnothinbutagstring · 22/09/2018 17:59

My dd has just done hers, we find out in a couple of weeks if she has made the score. You dont have much time but she has had some tutoring or will have had, as far as I know the first few hours of tutoring make the biggest difference. In the meantime, check whether the exam is GL or CEM as the format, areas covered, timing is different, for example CEM doesn't require any creative/continuous writing. Introduce non-verbal reasoning if you know it will be in the exam, most children will not have seen these types of questions but they're easy to improve on with practise. Get her to read ferociously, and write/lookup unfamiliar vocabulary. Familiarity with verbal reasoning also crucial for CEM as it carries the most weighting. Timing as well, with CEM, there is usually far more questions than time available to answer so your dd should be prepped so she is not intimidated by this. Check eleven plus forums as they are fountain of information. Think quality not quantity with revision sessions. Exam technique/familiarity will really help her at this late stage. Don't worry about other people!

JacquesHammer · 22/09/2018 18:03

We did nothing.

No past papers. No tutoring.

Didn’t see the point in tutoring her for a one off to find she didn’t meet the standard for the rest of her time there.

Furrycushion · 22/09/2018 18:04

That must be private in November, all the state ones will be over long before then.

missymayhemsmum · 22/09/2018 18:24

Do you actually want her to go to these schools? Have a look around at all your options, your dd may do just as well and be happier in a good comprehensive.

aintnothinbutagstring · 22/09/2018 18:35

Is this common entrance exams then, you're in birmingham yes so the eleven plus for state grammars has already taken place. Is she year 6?

Fireinthegrate · 22/09/2018 21:50

KeepingTheWormsQuiet. I think my daughter actually only did 2-3 papers at home so she knew what to expect at the exam. I'd hardly call that tutoring! And as an aside, she scored 100% in them straight off, same as she did for the actual exam. For her the grammar school was the best choice witout paying private. My other daughter didn't sit the exam and went to thelocal secondary, because that was the best choice for her.

OP make sure you look at all the schools available in your area. The grammar might not be the best match for your child.

W00t · 22/09/2018 22:02

Are you actually in Birmingham? The exams have already happened... Confused

Menolly · 22/09/2018 22:27

I tutor Kent 11+ (as well as just general tutoring) and I have had several pass that only had a few sessions, I've had others that have needed a lot more help to get in, I've also had ones that I knew by the 3rd session should not be being put through it as even with years of tutoring they wouldn't cope at grammar even if I could get them in, so it really depends on your DD, it might be enough, it might not.

I actually didn't tutor my own DS apart from 1 practice paper so he would know the format, as several children that I have done 11+ tutoring for have then needed tutoring to keep up with the work and personally I felt that if DS couldn't pass pretty much on his own it probably wouldn't be the best fit for him anyway. I do always tell parents to think very hard about if 11+ is actually right for their child and if they are prepared to keep that level of tutoring up if needs be, I know the head at DS' grammar tells parents the same thing.

ThanksItHasPockets · 22/09/2018 22:55

Sorry, OP, but PP are right - the Birmingham grammar exams have already taken place. There’s certainly a whole industry to give parents the impression that they can buy a place at the grammars. I’d love to see a longitudinal study on the amount of tutoring received by the pupils admitted each year.

Original poster
1Brummiemummy · 22/09/2018 23:21

My DD has already sat the grammar exam only a couple of weeks ago. She said she left a few marks off each paper so she wasn't prepared enough ( we only did one practice paper). I've also registered her to sit the exam for a local private school which is in Nov. I've looked at local schools and not keen on our local catchment. I'm considering other schools but at a distance and out of catchment. My DD is a keen learner & wants the very best for herself learning wise (very mature in her choices) so I don't want to let her down. I was hoping to move before school admissions Sad so thought it would be best to sit the exams so we at least have the options there for her.

OP posts:
Original poster
1Brummiemummy · 22/09/2018 23:36

Will definitely buy the books from WH Smith now, thanks. I've looked at both the grammar & Independent School. Both really stood out for us Smile

OP posts:
Original poster
1Brummiemummy · 22/09/2018 23:39

She's also on a starting a weekly course for creative writing which is part of the private school test.

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howrudeforme · 23/09/2018 00:00

For tutors who say they see children who they think couldn’t cope with grammar - why is that? Not being goady - just interested.

I recently moved to a grammar area. People get hysterical about it. The children I know who got in were tutored. Their parents are educated to age 16 and are successful in trades so had the money to tutor their kids into a school to avoid ‘riff raff ’ (actually what a neighbour expressed to me yesterday). Do these children do well at grammars or do they need the whole package eg educated parents, seeing parents pore over quality newspapers since birth, global outlook, languages etc?

I just don’t get it. Kids here tutored to get results that some non selective schools get.

The local catholic school is very oversubscribed and you have to have substantial faith credentials to get there, yet the ht pretty much admitted their results were propped up by the non catholic grammar stream students.

W00t · 23/09/2018 10:01

The independent schools are all looking for different things though; they place emphasis upon different skills. Have you spoken to the admissions tutor, and understood what the school values?
Does your daughter offer something else such as sporting or music prowess?

W00t · 23/09/2018 10:06

Also KEHS open day was yesterday, which means the closing date for their exam will be imminent. It's worth putting her in for that for the exam practice?

Hoppinggreen · 23/09/2018 10:16

We did past papers with dd from the start of y5 and then a couple of mocks a few months before the exam.
She did well and was offered a Grammar place and also a part scholarship at a Private school. We went for the Private School for several reasons ( distance and size mostly)
I would say that the thing that gives the best chance is that the child has to be motivated. There were less bright friends of my dd who did better than very bright dc who just wanted to go to the local comp with their mates purely because they really wanted to go to The Grammar

Menolly · 24/09/2018 20:40

For tutors who say they see children who they think couldn’t cope with grammar - why is that? Because if a child needs a lot of tutoring to get in they will struggle to keep up with the workload at grammar, plus some I have tutored don't deal with pressure and grammar school put a lot of pressure on, others are just better off being a big fish in a little pond rather than about average for their class. I don't mean it as a negative thing, just grammar schools aren't the right environment for everyone, even if they can pass 11+ easily. My little sister and I went to the same grammar, she loved it there, I hated it, we have very similar grades but hers were gained happily while I was really miserable.

Menolly · 24/09/2018 20:50

@howrudeforme, I'm guessing from your post you may be from TWells, if so St Gregs grammar stream is as good/better than some of the local grammars. Its not to do with parents background, I'd never judge a child's ability on that, my parents are not educated and have been unemployed most of my life. 4 of us are grammar educated. other 3 thrived there, i hated it (others are/were in the catholic grammar stream and also did well) Parental support helps, as it will in any school, but you can be a supportive parent without being well educated.

Original poster
1Brummiemummy · 08/03/2019 17:32

Just to update all. My daughter sat the 11+ at the local Independent school & gained a place with 100% Bursary. We are immensely proud & very appreciative Grin

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prettypossums · 08/03/2019 19:16

Wow, that’s wonderful news, congratulations Smile

Catscratchclub · 08/03/2019 19:24

Brilliant news!! I was coming on to tell you our experience till I saw your update.

I had an interview / look around our grammar and explained I wasn’t going to do any tutoring with him. He was either a natural fit for the school, or he wasn’t and I didn’t want to set him up to fail. We got offered a place And the teacher took me to one side and said it was the best attitude to have - they try and see the whole child, and see through the tutored responses apparently. This is however up north, not a London school. For full disclosure Ds is privately educated already, but was by no means prepped for the grammar assessment.