To wonder if meat and dairy can be ethical?

[BrightLightsAndSound]

Im not happy with the idea of supporting the cruelty of the meat and dairy industries anymore. Im considering going vegan, but I just wanted to ask you this.

I dont necessarily have a problem with the idea of killing an animal for meat, what concerns me is that the animal can live a happy and healthy life. Is it possible for meat to ever be ethical?

And what about milk and dairy? Can cows produce milk for humans and it be ethical?

Sure an animal can live a happy life before being killed, but why can't it just carry on living a happy life until it passes naturally? Why do we just barge in and decide they no longer get to live?

Dairy can never be ethical because the milk isn't for humans, it's for their calf. In order for the cow to produce dairy for humans it has to be constantly impregnated until they can no longer concieve and then they are usually discarded.

Nope, I don’t think they can ever be ethical. I haven’t studied ethics but as far as my own life is concerned, I wish to live a life that causes as little harm to others as possible. That is the ethical framework by which I live.

Using another creature without its consent for your own gain doesn’t seem ethical to me. Similarly, killing something for your benefit instead of for its own good (euthanasia) doesn’t seem ethical, no matter how wonderful its life has been.

By humans very existence we are causing other species to suffer though

I don’t think killing an animal to eat it is ever ethical, but to be honest philosophical arguments have no place in the grim realities of today’s meat, dairy and poultry industries.

I understand what you mean, OP.

If a cow, for example, is left to graze outdoors for the duration of its life rather than being locked up indoors in a factory farm, then I think it’s certainly better, but that animal still has to be transported to an abattoir, which is likely to be disturbing and traumatic.

I’m not 100% vegan yet, but working on it. It took me a lot of years as a vegetarian to appreciate just how cruel the dairy industry is. It was never something that I considered before, to be honest, because I was always more preoccupied with the idea that killing an animal was the ultimate cruelty.

The other thing is that as consumers, we can’t trust that any animal products we buy are completely cruelty free. I’m sure someone will help me out here, but wasn’t there a high profile supplier (sold meat to M&S, I think) recently that was exposed for the most horrific cruelty, despite being an RSPCA approved farm?

Does a Lioness check whether it is ethical to chase down and kill a gazelle or zebra?

We are all part of a food chain. As sentient beings you can choose to opt out from the eating bit, but I have an issue with anyone trying to impose their ethics on others.

I could never eat dog, but cannot condemn cultures that do.

No and besides there are too many people wanting to eat meat and dairy for it ever to be feasible to be produced in a way that means the animals lead wonderful lives in sufficient quantity to meet the demand

Meat can be ethical.

Dairy however can't be.

i am a meat eater and I'm not trying to start an argument or anything I'm genuinely interested in your views but I was just wondering what you think would happen to all the animals if they didn't get killed for meat. farmers wouldn't breed them anymore as they're not profitable, they wouldnt just live out their lives in a field as farmers own the land and need it to grow more crops and as i said they arent profitable to them anymore and we couldn't just set them free as there's too many of them. wouldn't they all get killed for the sake of it if that happened? like I said im not trying to start an argument or slag of vegetarians or vegans as I completely respect their decisions to not eat meat. i just don't think it's as easy as banning meat

I think meat can be ethically raised (although it's highly unlikely to be given the volume of demand) but I don't think dairy ever can be.

and I don't think there will ever be an ethical way of killing animals for meat that would suit everyone

Ethical is subjective. IMO anything that kills or harms an animal can’t be ethical.

I was just wondering what you think would happen to all the animals if they didn't get killed for meat

Hopefully they would die out.

IMO it is far better to not exist in the first place than it is to be born into a life of misery.

Other animals think nothing of the ethics of where their meal comes from. What they don't do, though, is reRcanumals in conditions that go against their own natural instincts

No problem with eating meat so long as we do as much as we can afford to ensure that animal has had the life it needs. I hVe to balance that against autistic kids who tend towards eating shite, so go as free range as I can mange. I buy as much meat as possible from a local organic fRm.

CantThinkOfNameOops That would only be one generation of animals. We just need to stop breeding more.

Having worked in and around farms and in abbatoirs I am ok with meat and dairy. Cows are generally well cared for and live the life they were designed to live ( ie a prey animal, without the constant stress of predators). Stress affects both meat quality and milk production and most farmers are switched onto that, and there are lots of welfare standards in place to ensure they live good life.

I don't eat meat. I think farming standards in the UK are better than many places and I think some animals do have quite a happy life although I do think the end must always be somewhat distressing. I always buy good quality British meat for my partner and children. I think standards will only get worse in the future with the demand for cheaper food. Dairy farming makes me feel very uncomfortable and I am considering not drinking cows milk. I would never impose my views on anyone else but I find people who don't seem to care at all quite hard to understand.

I’ve got two friends who grew up on farms and were so appalled by the treatment of animals they’re now are vegan.

Dairy - no. To get milk, cows have to lactate, which means they have to be pregnant and give birth - this is all forced. There's no way around that.

Meat - the only way I can think of is if the animal dies of natural causes then they're used for meat. But there just wouldn't be an industry for that - it would be expensive to keep an animal that long in excellent conditions with no idea of when you'd make money off it

My DS has been vegetarian since age 8 (own choice) and vegan since age 14 (again own choice). He has extensively researched the farmed meat, poultry, egg and dairy industries. It has taken me 2 years to really assimilate what he has researched (often dismissing/rationalizing the brutal truth in that time).

After a lot of soul searching on top of research I do not believe it is possible to source and/eat ethically farmed animal products.

The industries are inherently cruel, animals are treated as inanimate byproducts (disposal of unwanted chicks, calves, non producing cows). I don't judge anybody who disagrees.

I don’t think it’s possible however I successfully told myself it was for many years!

GoldenMcOldie that was my experience I’m sorry to say.

I'm a farmer.

Our animals are raised 'ethically' (whatever that means, they live outside and eat grass the vast majority of the time, I find that pretty ethical)

I can't control what happens to them when they go to the abbatoir but they are there for a very short period of time and we purposefully pick abbatoir with short journey times.

It's not in the interests of the abbatoir to abuse animals as it taints the meat. I have no idea why some do, it's baffling.

but I have an issue with anyone trying to impose their ethics on others. society decides what is ethical.